manual transmission: can't shift when engine running

Fri Feb 6 06:34:50 PST 2009

Geraint,

thanks for a detailed post, I will try to answer your questions the best I could

On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 7:39 AM, Geraint Lloyd <geraintlloyd_qc at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> Andrew,
>
> So just to confirm; you have a 96 passat with a 2L 8v and front wheel drive
> through an 02A / 02J geearbox?
> I have a golf 2 with an ADY block and CTM gearbox so not too different

My 96 Passat indeed has a 2L 8v engine (engine code ABA). I think the
gearbox is indeed 02A. I also had a Golf-2 in the past and I notice
many similarities between cars including some parts'
interchangeability.

> If you can't change gear with the engine running but can with it off, it
> sounds like the clutch somewhere.

I can't 100% say that there is the "clutch somewhere". All I can say
that all gears shift smoothly with the engine off. Do you really need
a clutch somewhere to be able to shift with the engine off when car is
parked on the level surface? If you do, than yes.

> I have a similar issue with the golf having converted it to hydraulic clutch
> operation; however the gearbox was off recently without moving the clutch
> "known good" so i know that it's the hydraulics.
>
> Are you loosing brake fluid?

I don't loose brake fluid at all. Not even a drop. Moreover, yesterday
I bled the clutch slave cylinder. There was no air in it and the
clutch pedal always had a reasonable feel, not too hard but not wooshy
too.

> When you press the clutch with the engine running does it make any nasty
> whirry scraping noises or pulsing vibrations at the pedal?
> Is the master cylinder original?
>
> If you park the car on an incline (slight), what happens if you put it in
> gear, release the handbrake, then depress the clutch?
> If it rolls, or at least starts to then i would suspect that you have a
> failed master / slave cylinder, that can't overcome the friction of spinning
> clutch disks.
> Failing that, what happens if you put it in gear and start it with your foot
> on the clutch (and the other one firmly on the brakes just in case)? Does
> the car try to jump forward or does it stay put until you release the
> clutch?

The master and the slave cylinders are both original. There seems to
be indeed a very slight vibration in the pedal now when the car is in
the gear, clutch depressed and the engine running but there are no
unusual noises that I can hear. Also, it seems to me that the car at
least tries to roll, especially when in reverse, despite the clutch is
depressed. All these effects are new (started yesterday). There was
none of such behavior before.

> I am assuming that the black plastic thing that you replaced has been set up
> properly. It is the side to side adjustment piece for the gear lever so the
> trick is to either use the vw tool or fiddle with it so that 1st and reverse
> are set right: lever has to be pushed down and across for reverse, but just
> across for 1st

When installing the black plastic thing (#49 in this picture
http://s1.ipicture.ru/uploads/090206/15611/ybSH1nx5mO.jpg) I
remembered that its adjustment is tricky. I assume you mean the
position of the bolt that sticks from the part in the elongated hole
in part #48 in the same picture (relay lever). I remember playing with
this adjustment about 6 months ago because my wife complained that it
was difficult for her to get into the 1st gear in this car. So, I
fiddled with it until she was able to comfortably shift into all
gears. Right now, I adjusted it into an approximately the same
position and indeed the shifter has to be pushed down for reverse, not
just to the left past the 1st,

> I am also assuming that you can select got lots of gears on the linkage
> tower on the transmission with the engine off
>

Yes, with the engine off I can put the car into any gear without a
slightest difficulty.

> You say that you can barely change gear with the engine on, but if the
> clutch was dead then you wouldn't be able to change gear at all with the car
> not moving so i think that you have either the master or slave cylinders
> that has almost died.

Well, changing the gears while the car is idling is possible but
extremely difficult. For example it is practically impossible to put
it in the 1st while I can (while with a considerable difficulty) put
it into the 3rd and in reverse.

> I am thinking that this would be a progressive
> failure, but for now has got past the point where it's functioning. HTHLW
> (Had That Happen Last Week). I would also suggest that the fact that the
> black plastic thingy that broke in the selector linkage might mean that you
> had to use progressively more and more force to change gear and this
> component finally gave in. Then again HTHWAEGW (Had That Happen Without
> Anything Else Going Wrong)

Thanks again. I hope that this is indeed a hydraulic failure. So much
less expense and effort to replace one or both cylinders than to drop
a transmission. As I said, I did that once (in a Golf-2) and I am not
looking forward for another such experience. So, should I try first
replacing a clutch slave cylinder and (if it does not help) the clutch
master cylinder before assuming the worst?

Cheers,
Andrew

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew
> Sent: 05 February 2009 21:05
> To: quattro at audifans.com
> Subject: manual transmission: can't shift when engine running
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I know this isn't exactly Audi but I used to getting an expert advise
> here when I had a 4KQ, so hopefully someone would give me an advise on
> my problem with a '96 Passat.
>
> The car in question is 1996 Passat GLS, 2 L engine (code ABA), manual
> transmission (code CRU).
>
> Yesterday on my way to work I found myself unable to get the
> transmission out of the 4th gear to neutral when slowing down to a
> traffic light. Luckily, I was only a mile from home, so I pulled over,
> shut of the engine, opened the hood, put the car in the 1st gear from
> under the hood, turned the engine on with the clutch pedal depressed,
> released the clutch and crawled back home in the first gear.
>
> I partially disassembled the shifting mechanism and found that the
> shifting link labeled 49 at this picture
> http://s1.ipicture.ru/uploads/090206/15611/ybSH1nx5mO.jpg (here is a
> photo from a different siteL
> http://s1.ipicture.ru/uploads/090206/15611/a9dlr3jEoB.jpg) was worn.
> The steel bolt originally molded into plastic was falling out freely
> and I thought that was the reason of the shifting failure.
>
> However, after having this part replaced (wondering why it was plastic
> rather than metal in the first place) I still have a shifting problem
> in the car.With the engine off I can easily switch between gears but
> with the engine on I can only shift with a considerable difficulty if
> at all.
>
> The clutch pedal is solid and goes all the way up as it should but I
> bled the clutch anyway, which did not help with my shifting problem.
>
> The only other thing I feel needs to be said, that the failure from
> normal smooth shifting to my current situation was sudden rather than
> gradual deterioration. It was not like shifting was becoming
> increasingly difficult lately until it became impossible today. It was
> all fine and smooth and suddenly failed today on the road and became
> completely impossible.
>
> Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
> TIA,
> Andrew
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