quattro Digest, Vol 63, Issue 19
John Cassidy
jcassidy at diamondconstruction.com
Thu Jan 8 16:41:58 PST 2009
One other thing to consider. I have a sister that works in a whore
house, and a brother that skis on looks. I haven't had the heart to
tell my mom about my brother.
-----Original Message-----
From: quattro-bounces at audifans.com [mailto:quattro-bounces at audifans.com]
On Behalf Of quattro-request at audifans.com
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 5:12 PM
To: quattro at audifans.com
Subject: quattro Digest, Vol 63, Issue 19
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: NAC: worst engine in the world award (David Ullrich)
2. Worst Engines- (omar millmech)
3. Re: A6 4.2L - pros and cons? (Taka Mizutani)
4. Euro light options (Montague, Scot)
5. Decision time (Kent McLean)
6. RE: Worst Engines- (Louis-Alain Richard)
7. RE: Decision time (Ed Kellock)
8. Re: Decision time (Huw Powell)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 15:00:48 -0500
From: "David Ullrich" <david.ullrich at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: NAC: worst engine in the world award
To: "quattro at audifans.com" <quattro at audifans.com>
Message-ID:
<f4c312c80901081200w26c99550m2103d4b6dc27b714 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Bah, I wonder if y'all might be too young to remember the really BAD
engines
of the past. The engines mentioned so far are all perfectly fine engines
when comapred to thigns like the Caddilac V4-6-8 (GMs first and most
terrible attempt at fuel savings by cylinder deactivation) or the Olds
small
block 350 Diesel (which ruined the image of Diesels in the USA forever,
still hurting the image of Diesel eve today). THOSE were truely terrible
engines.
Dave
-Audiless for now
-Wanted: 1987 CGT Triple White
On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 2:50 PM, Louis-Alain Richard
<larichard at plguide.com>wrote:
> -----Message d'origine-----
> i believe that the small block buick v8 has the unofficial title of
the
> "worst engine in the world".
>
>
> No Dennis and Dave, the absolute worst engine in the world was the 2,5
> liter
> GM 4-cylinder. Maybe it was longer lasting than the Vega's or the
Buick,
> but
> it was gutless, thirsty, noisy, trashy and obsolete. An horror. The
Ford
> Tempo 2,3 liter was a gem in comparison.
>
> Louis-Alain
> Who spent its youth at the wheel of these obscure machines...
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> quattro mailing list
> quattro at audifans.com
> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/quattro
> ---
> Watch this space for ads :)
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 12:05:20 -0800 (PST)
From: omar millmech <h636k at yahoo.com>
Subject: Worst Engines-
To: Audilist <quattro at audifans.com>
Message-ID: <352443.20802.qm at web32804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
There's some Audi content in this-
http://www.autooninfo.net/NAEd200804BestAndWorstEngines.htm
But here's some old-time stuff-
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/0408phr_worst_automobile_engin
es/index.html
Never Fear! Magic Goop is here!
http://www.heal-a-seal.com/NorthStar.html
Tata-
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 15:35:23 -0500
From: "Taka Mizutani" <t44tqtro at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: A6 4.2L - pros and cons?
To: "jesper moreau" <jesper5ktqm.audi at gmail.com>
Cc: Tihol Tiholov <t.tiholov at gmail.com>, Audifans
<quattro at audifans.com>, Tony Hoffman <auditony at gmail.com>
Message-ID:
<79698a910901081235t8252b57n62d8d303a990ed10 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
The issue with Sport Quattro engine is porosity of the castings- a bunch
were replaced with "standard" iron block engines much like what is in a
20v
UrQ because of these issues.
I never heard that they pulled engines out of customer cars so they
could
use the engines in motorsport- that would not have gone over well.
Taka
On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 1:03 PM, jesper moreau
<jesper5ktqm.audi at gmail.com>wrote:
> some info I gathered
>
>
>> The sport Q and a few urqs had alum blocks installed from the
factory.
>> (and rumored some 200's)
>> other rumor has it that several sport q's had their engines replaced
with
>> iron blocks for "Warranty Issues" yet the blocks ended up being used
in the
>> Rally circuit. James Bufkin has a rally ur-q with an alum block from
sport
>> quattro number 77 (IIRC) and has been in contact with the owner of
sport q
>> 77, and yes it has an iron block that was installed under warranty.
>>
>> There are no documented instances of any other production 5 cylinder
cars
>> leaving the factory with an aluminum engine block.
>>
>> Many other alum block cars have had their blocks swapped for iron
>> replacements with or without owner consent during the warranty
period, and
>> rumor has it because Audi sport ran out of castings and was needing
them.
>>
>>
>> european market, WR, WX, WK something like that was the engine codes
and
>> then there was the carbureted 1.9L WH as well.
>>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 9:28 AM, Taka Mizutani <t44tqtro at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>> That doesn't make sense- Audi built the minimum required 200 Sport
>> Quattros for Group B, so there really is no need to homologate the
engine.
>>
>> The only other cars I know of that used the Sport Quattro block is
the A2.
>>
>> Taka
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 4:22 PM, 5ktqm <jesper5ktqm.audi at gmail.com>
wrote:
>>
>>> Tony... It wasn't just the sport quattro that received the alum.
>>> Block... Euro only urq's and 200's were fitted with aluminum blocks
>>> for homoglaten purposes then during service periods were then
removed
>>> and placed in their Motorsports cars.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Jesper Moreau
>
> '08 A3 DD (38.6 mpg best)
> '95.5 URs6 Avant mit go fast gizmos
> '92 tornado redish S4 (wifes ride)
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 15:17:52 -0600
From: "Montague, Scot" <smontagu at mail.smu.edu>
Subject: Euro light options
To: "quattro at audifans.com" <quattro at audifans.com>
Message-ID:
<7A6FE75608A3624E872147993C8B36BB042628384D at SXMBXC.systems.smu.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I have heard of someone install BMW E36 (92-98) lights in our cars. I
have gone as far as taken some measurements and see that it could be
done. Anyway, that brings back up the subject of how BMW and the
aftermarket area for their older cars is so superior to Audi.
Scot
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:48:49 +0000
From: kentmclean at comcast.net (Kent McLean)
Subject: Decision time
To: quattro at audifans.com
Message-ID:
<010820092148.25200.496674C100081A07000062702212020784020E0A040C039B020A
05 at comcast.net>
List,
My '99 A4 is dead. I came home on a Tuesday night, it was running fine.
I tried to start in on Wednesday morning, no start. It wasn't the
starter. The engine had no compression. The engine had no oil. 130K
miles.
The theory is that it ran out of oil. No noises. No instrument cluster
warning. (But the dam "low windshield washer fluid" light will shine and
scream at you. Damn you, Team Door Handle.) I confess that commuting
1500 mi/week, over the holidays I must have missed checking the oil over
a weekend or two. Yes, boneheaded. I plead overworked.
Upon examination: 30-80 psi compression in each cylinder. When the crank
is at top dead center, the cam marks don't line up. The theory is that
the stress of no oil caused the crank/cam key to shear, causing the cams
to shift, smashing valves into the pistons.
So, it is decision time. Rough estimates provided by the wrench,
guestimated:
1) R&R the engine with a used one, new timing belt, labor: $3500.
2) R&R the heads, new timing belt, labor: $1500. No guarantee that the
bottom end didn't suffer and this will be for naught.
3) Sell the carcass to the mechanic: $1000
KBB for excellent condition trade-in: $4500
What would you do:
a) Put $3500 into it to have a $4500 car?
b) Put $1500 into it and hope and pray the bottom end is OK; if not, put
another $3500 into it or take the $1000?
c) Walk away from it with $1000, and just drive my '91 200 TQA?
d) Take the $1000 and put it into a new ???
e) buy a Honda. :) (or should that be a :( ?)
I like the car a lot. But the seat is uncomfortable for long hauls, and
that's what I've been doing (and will do for another month or so).
I eagerly await your collective thoughts.
--
Kent McLean
'99 A4 Avant
'91 200 20V Avant #3
'94 100 Avant, sold
'91 200 20V Avant #2, up in smoke #2
'91 200 20V Avant #1, recycled
'89 200 10V sedan, up in smoke
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 17:06:32 -0500
From: "Louis-Alain Richard" <larichard at plguide.com>
Subject: RE: Worst Engines-
To: <h636k at yahoo.com>, "'Audilist'" <quattro at audifans.com>
Message-ID: <001801c971dd$5dadeb80$1909c280$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Absolute NAC, but absolute joy to read ! The story about the Olds made
my
day : what a catastrophic chain of events...
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/0408phr_worst_automobile_engin
es/i
ndex.html
Some extracts :
Cadillac HT 4100
(...) Another problem were soft camshaft cores that would wear to such
an
extent that the valves would hardly open. Amazingly, the engine would
sit
and idle at 400 rpm in drive as smooth as silk with the only driver
complaint being a lack of power. After disassembly and inspection of the
camshaft, one would never believe that an engine could idle so nicely
with
round lobes!
Chrysler 2.2 liter
(...) Though a mechanically sound design, the 2.2 suffered from day one
with
a poor carburetor and distributor. The progressive two-barrel
feedback-Holley carburetor was responsible for stalling, surging, rough
running and general poor driveability that no one--even the best
mechanic--could ever seem to cure. In addition, the distributor was
plagued
from extreme cost-cutting steps and the shaft-support bushing would wear
to
such an extent that the rotor would hit the distributor cap and break
off,
leaving the motorist stranded. Excessive cylinder-to-cylinder timing
variations came standard with every 2.2 Chrysler in the early days.
The non-crossflow cylinder head design made the engine easy to package
in
almost every Chrysler body style but deemed the powerplant dated before
it
even had a chance to stall for the first time.
Oldsmobile Diesel
(...) The engine suffered from the lack of a water/fuel separator and
drain
in the fuel system. Any moisture or dirt that would get into the
high-pressure Roosa Master injection pump would cause some of the parts
to
hang up. This could have occurred for only a second, but that was enough
time of an incorrect fuel inject cycle that would allow cylinder
pressure to
peak and overcome head bolt tension or break down the head gasket. The
driver may have only sensed a slight shudder but the damage was already
done. The injured head gasket would then let coolant seep into the
cylinder
and since there is little quench volume in a diesel, the
incompressibility
of a liquid was a theory very quickly reinforced. Something had to give
and
it often was a piston, connecting rod or crankshaft but it spelled
disaster
either way.
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 16:00:54 -0700
From: "Ed Kellock" <ekellock at gmail.com>
Subject: RE: Decision time
To: "'Kent McLean'" <kentmclean at comcast.net>, <quattro at audifans.com>
Message-ID: <520478197DB3479994F173086DC97F89 at Boonieslap>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Is there anything that the $1000 can do for the 91 Avant to make it
ultra
primo? I guess you can't make it an automatic. Is the A4 and
automatic?
V6 or 4?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: quattro-bounces at audifans.com
> [mailto:quattro-bounces at audifans.com] On Behalf Of Kent McLean
> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 2:49 PM
> To: quattro at audifans.com
> Subject: Decision time
>
>
> List,
>
> My '99 A4 is dead. I came home on a Tuesday night, it was
> running fine. I tried to start in on Wednesday morning, no
> start. It wasn't the starter. The engine had no compression.
> The engine had no oil. 130K miles.
>
> The theory is that it ran out of oil. No noises. No
> instrument cluster warning. (But the dam "low windshield
> washer fluid" light will shine and scream at you. Damn you,
> Team Door Handle.) I confess that commuting 1500 mi/week,
> over the holidays I must have missed checking the oil over a
> weekend or two. Yes, boneheaded. I plead overworked.
>
> Upon examination: 30-80 psi compression in each cylinder.
> When the crank is at top dead center, the cam marks don't
> line up. The theory is that the stress of no oil caused the
> crank/cam key to shear, causing the cams to shift, smashing
> valves into the pistons.
>
> So, it is decision time. Rough estimates provided by the
> wrench, guestimated:
>
> 1) R&R the engine with a used one, new timing belt, labor: $3500.
> 2) R&R the heads, new timing belt, labor: $1500. No guarantee
> that the bottom end didn't suffer and this will be for naught.
> 3) Sell the carcass to the mechanic: $1000
>
> KBB for excellent condition trade-in: $4500
>
> What would you do:
>
> a) Put $3500 into it to have a $4500 car?
> b) Put $1500 into it and hope and pray the bottom end is OK;
> if not, put another $3500 into it or take the $1000?
> c) Walk away from it with $1000, and just drive my '91 200 TQA?
> d) Take the $1000 and put it into a new ???
>
> e) buy a Honda. :) (or should that be a :( ?)
>
> I like the car a lot. But the seat is uncomfortable for long
> hauls, and that's what I've been doing (and will do for
> another month or so).
>
> I eagerly await your collective thoughts.
>
> --
> Kent McLean
> '99 A4 Avant
> '91 200 20V Avant #3
> '94 100 Avant, sold
> '91 200 20V Avant #2, up in smoke #2
> '91 200 20V Avant #1, recycled
> '89 200 10V sedan, up in smoke
> _______________________________________________
> quattro mailing list
> quattro at audifans.com http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/quattro
> ---
> Watch this space for ads :)
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.5/1882 - Release
> Date: 1/8/2009 8:13 AM
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 19:11:10 -0500
From: Huw Powell <audi at humanspeakers.com>
Subject: Re: Decision time
To: Ed Kellock <ekellock at gmail.com>
Cc: quattro at audifans.com
Message-ID: <4966961E.5070202 at humanspeakers.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Ed Kellock wrote:
> Is there anything that the $1000 can do for the 91 Avant to make it
ultra
> primo? I guess you can't make it an automatic. Is the A4 and
automatic?
> V6 or 4?
I can answer that one! V6 (he said "heads").
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: quattro-bounces at audifans.com
>> [mailto:quattro-bounces at audifans.com] On Behalf Of Kent McLean
>> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 2:49 PM
>> To: quattro at audifans.com
>> Subject: Decision time
>>
>>
>> List,
>>
>> My '99 A4 is dead. I came home on a Tuesday night, it was
>> running fine. I tried to start in on Wednesday morning, no
>> start. It wasn't the starter. The engine had no compression.
>> The engine had no oil. 130K miles.
>>
>> The theory is that it ran out of oil. No noises. No
>> instrument cluster warning. (But the dam "low windshield
>> washer fluid" light will shine and scream at you. Damn you,
>> Team Door Handle.) I confess that commuting 1500 mi/week,
>> over the holidays I must have missed checking the oil over a
>> weekend or two. Yes, boneheaded. I plead overworked.
>>
>> Upon examination: 30-80 psi compression in each cylinder.
>> When the crank is at top dead center, the cam marks don't
>> line up. The theory is that the stress of no oil caused the
>> crank/cam key to shear, causing the cams to shift, smashing
>> valves into the pistons.
>>
>> So, it is decision time. Rough estimates provided by the
>> wrench, guestimated:
>>
>> 1) R&R the engine with a used one, new timing belt, labor: $3500.
>> 2) R&R the heads, new timing belt, labor: $1500. No guarantee
>> that the bottom end didn't suffer and this will be for naught.
>> 3) Sell the carcass to the mechanic: $1000
>>
>> KBB for excellent condition trade-in: $4500
>>
>> What would you do:
>>
>> a) Put $3500 into it to have a $4500 car?
>> b) Put $1500 into it and hope and pray the bottom end is OK;
>> if not, put another $3500 into it or take the $1000?
>> c) Walk away from it with $1000, and just drive my '91 200 TQA?
>> d) Take the $1000 and put it into a new ???
>>
>> e) buy a Honda. :) (or should that be a :( ?)
>>
>> I like the car a lot. But the seat is uncomfortable for long
>> hauls, and that's what I've been doing (and will do for
>> another month or so).
>>
>> I eagerly await your collective thoughts.
>>
>> --
>> Kent McLean
>> '99 A4 Avant
>> '91 200 20V Avant #3
>> '94 100 Avant, sold
>> '91 200 20V Avant #2, up in smoke #2
>> '91 200 20V Avant #1, recycled
>> '89 200 10V sedan, up in smoke
>> _______________________________________________
>> quattro mailing list
>> quattro at audifans.com http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/quattro
>> ---
>> Watch this space for ads :)
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.5/1882 - Release
>> Date: 1/8/2009 8:13 AM
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> quattro mailing list
> quattro at audifans.com
> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/quattro
> ---
> Watch this space for ads :)
>
>
--
Huw Powell
http://www.humanspeakers.com/audi
http://www.humanthoughts.org/
------------------------------
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