Looking for an explanation

Tue Feb 2 19:39:44 PST 2010

Thank you guys for your suggestions.  The car has been running fine for two 
days now.  We checked the underbody and there is no sign of damage.  Fuel 
pump relay seems to be securely seated (will check from the driver footwell 
when it gets warmer). Checked fuel pump terminals - solid.  At the time of 
the incident the tank was 3/4 full.  Fuel pump looks original.  The seizure 
was definitely a direct result of impact, however small the impact of a 
plastic cone hit at 20 km/h can be.  I'm thinking that perhaps there was an 
electric shock that caused the pump to stop.  Or the current was low, due to 
extremely low temperature, like you suggested.  On the other hand, using the 
starter to drive the car into the garage would have put a heavy load on the 
battery, yet that's when the pump returned to life!  One way or another, I 
looked at new fuel pump prices and didn't like what I saw.  The cheapest 
Bosch I found was just under US$200.  Ebay has a bunch of fuel pumps listed 
for cheap but none of them is a Bosch.  Some look similar, some look 
completely different from the original design.  Opinions?
Thanks.

Radek.

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 00:03:02 EST
> From: TWFAUST at aol.com
> Subject: Re: Looking for an explanation
> To: quattro at audifans.com
> Message-ID: <3fa9.5a9d33bc.3897ba86 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 1/31/2010 11:57:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> quattro-request at audifans.com writes:
>
> From: "Radek" <radek at istar.ca>
> Subject: Looking for an  explanation
>
> At that temperature, how about water/ice in the fuel.
>
> Tom Faust
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 00:38:55 -0500
> From: "Doyt W. Echelberger" <doyt at buckeye-express.com>
> Subject: Re: Looking for an explanation
> To: quattro at audifans.com
> Message-ID:
> <6.1.2.0.2.20100201001534.0210dc08 at mail.buckeye-express.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> In the summer of 2009 one of my older gasoline fueled vehicles (1976)
> developed a nasty but random pattern of starting, running, getting me
> somewhere, and then not starting when it was time to come home.  Didn't
> happen every time...maybe about every third or fourth or fifth time.
>
> Only one thing was obvious to me when it wouldn't start....there was no 
> raw
> fuel smell after multiple cranking. I told this to my mechanic, but it
> always started when he tried it.
>
> Left it with the mechanic for a week, and it started every morning for 
> him.
> He called me and said "come pick it up, there is nothing wrong we can 
> find.
> If we can't demonstrate it, we can't fix it."
>
> So, I went to pick it up at his garage, got the keys, cranked it over to
> take it home......and it wouldn't start. He came out and was amazed (and I
> was vindicated). He took it inside, ran fuel pressure tests and declared 
> it
> a failing fuel pump.
>
> New fuel pump. The vehicle now starts flawlessly, every time.   I go, I
> come home.
>
> I guess we are sharing some experiences about one of the mysterious 
> failure
> modes of aging fuel pumps. The one in my 76 was 36 years old. Now, all you
> readers with fuel pumps over 30 years old will be a little more prepared
> for the future.
>
> Doyt Echelberger
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 02:25:52 -0500
> From: Robert Myers <bob at chips-ur-s.com>
> Subject: Re: Looking for an explanation
> To: audi at humanspeakers.com
> Cc: Radek <radek at istar.ca>, quattro at audifans.com
> Message-ID: <auto-000000630817 at chips-ur-s.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
>
> I had an older Audi with essentially identical symptoms.  It finally
> turned out to be a failing fuel pump relay socket.  The pins of the
> FP relay were not in their receptacles deeply enough to make positive
> contact all the time.  The car side connection for the FP relay
> socket had apparently never been fully seated from the factory and it
> had, over the years, vibrated loose far enough to cause intermittent
> contact with the mating relay pins.  The engine would simply stall
> from time to time.  Now talk about a frustrating diagnosis to finally
> discover the actual problem.  Wow.
>
> Bob
>
>
> At 11:30 PM 1/31/2010, Huw Powell wrote:
>>*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(r) Pro*
>>
>> > Because I had no helpers to push the car into the garage, I decided
>> > to use the starter.  So I put the car into second gear, released the
>> > clutch alone and turned the key:  the car rolled nicely into the
>> > garage, and A MIRACLE HAPPENED.  IT STARTED!  I kept it running for a
>> > few minutes, turned it off, then on again:  fuel pump is buzzing and
>> > car starts as if nothing ever happened.
>>
>>At least you didn't drive it through the back wall of the garage.
>>
>>Old car, tired wiring, needs TLC on connections?
>>
>>
>>--
>>Huw Powell
>>
>>http://www.humanspeakers.com/audi
>>
>>http://www.humanthoughts.org/
>>_______________________________________________
>>quattro mailing list
>>http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/quattro
>>http://www.audifans.com/kb/List_information
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 08:11:35 -0500
> From: Grant Lenahan <glenahan at vfemail.net>
> Subject: Re: Looking for an explanation
> To: "Radek" <radek at istar.ca>
> Cc: quattro at audifans.com
> Message-ID: <7CD7F3A9-E733-472F-8E65-04447E9D17DD at vfemail.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> hit a wire or connector, is my guess
> grant
>
> On Jan 31, 2010, at 10:22 PM, Radek wrote:
>
>> Yesterday, my 18-year old son took his 1988 90Q to the track for winter 
>> driving school - skidding, emergency braking, accident avoidance, etc. 
>> Around noon he calls me and says "dad, I hit a cone and the car died. 
>> The fuel pump is not buzzing."  He checked for gasoline smell - none. 
>> Reached to fuel pump and checked wires - seemed ok.  Checked fuses and 
>> wiggled fuel pump relay - nothing.  Long story short, poor lad had to 
>> come back home on a flatbed.
>>
>> Today I went to check out the car in daylight:  no visible damage 
>> underneath (it was about 20 deg. centigrade below yesterday, so the cone 
>> could have been pretty hard), fuel lines ok, brake lines ok, electrical 
>> connections to fuel pump ok.  The pump did not buzz when the key was 
>> turned.  I tried cranking the engine and it sputtered a bit but didn't 
>> start.
>>
>> Because I had no helpers to push the car into the garage, I decided to 
>> use the starter.  So I put the car into second gear, released the clutch 
>> alone and turned the key:  the car rolled nicely into the garage, and A 
>> MIRACLE HAPPENED.  IT STARTED!  I kept it running for a few minutes, 
>> turned it off, then on again:  fuel pump is buzzing and car starts as if 
>> nothing ever happened.
>>
>> Is there a logical explanation to this?  For a moment I thought about an 
>> immobilizer having been triggered by the impact of running over the cone, 
>> but I don't think these cars have one?  Any ideas?  Is it the Audi Gods 
>> putting the young lad to the test with his first Audi?
>>
>> Radek in Ottawa
>> _______________________________________________
>> quattro mailing list
>> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/quattro
>> http://www.audifans.com/kb/List_information
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 06:40:50 -0600
> From: "Steve Marinello" <smarinello at entouch.net>
> Subject: RE: Looking for an explanation
> To: <quattro at audifans.com>
> Cc: 'Radek' <radek at istar.ca>
> Message-ID: <97A5AAFFDF7B4290A3A478282F11FC4B at GT5674>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> One time, thankfully only once, the urq had the same symptoms.  Turned out
> that, from an offroad excursion to avoid an out of control semi, one of 
> the
> posts on the fuel pump had taken a hit and broken down in the housing. 
> You
> could wiggle the post.  Irreparable, and the new pump eliminated the
> problem.
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: quattro-bounces at audifans.com [mailto:quattro-bounces at audifans.com] 
> On
> Behalf Of Robert Myers
> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 1:26 AM
> To: audi at humanspeakers.com
> Cc: Radek; quattro at audifans.com
> Subject: Re: Looking for an explanation
>
>
> I had an older Audi with essentially identical symptoms.  It finally
> turned out to be a failing fuel pump relay socket.  The pins of the
> FP relay were not in their receptacles deeply enough to make positive
> contact all the time.  The car side connection for the FP relay
> socket had apparently never been fully seated from the factory and it
> had, over the years, vibrated loose far enough to cause intermittent
> contact with the mating relay pins.  The engine would simply stall
> from time to time.  Now talk about a frustrating diagnosis to finally
> discover the actual problem.  Wow.
>
> Bob
>
>
> At 11:30 PM 1/31/2010, Huw Powell wrote:
>>*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(r) Pro*
>>
>> > Because I had no helpers to push the car into the garage, I decided
>> > to use the starter.  So I put the car into second gear, released the
>> > clutch alone and turned the key:  the car rolled nicely into the
>> > garage, and A MIRACLE HAPPENED.  IT STARTED!  I kept it running for a
>> > few minutes, turned it off, then on again:  fuel pump is buzzing and
>> > car starts as if nothing ever happened.
>>
>>At least you didn't drive it through the back wall of the garage.
>>
>>Old car, tired wiring, needs TLC on connections?
>>
>>
>>--
>>Huw Powell
>>
>>http://www.humanspeakers.com/audi
>>
>>http://www.humanthoughts.org/
>>_______________________________________________
>>quattro mailing list
>>http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/quattro
>>http://www.audifans.com/kb/List_information
> _______________________________________________
> quattro mailing list
> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/quattro
> http://www.audifans.com/kb/List_information
>