Toyota UA-LAC

[john at westcoastgarage.net]

Grant Lenahan wrote:
> yep, despite all the hollering. Look up 0-60 distance and 60-0 distances.  Very clear.  brakes are many times stronger than motors.
>
> Grant
> On Jan 27, 2010, at 4:04 PM, Joshua Van Tol wrote:
>
>   
>> It's easily tested. Get yourself a late model toyota (or any car for that matter), and some open road. Accelerate to 100 or so, and apply the brakes hard while keeping it floored. Even the crappiest car will stop.
>>     
>
>   
Here's my last comment on this, as I think the whole thing is becoming 
polarized.  This is from KFMB, CBS Channel 8, in San Diego.  Note the 
reported observation that "the brakes were on fire".  John

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      'Runaway cars' may be a widespread problem for Toyota, Lexus owners

/Posted: Oct 19, 2009 6:54 AM PDT / /Updated: Oct 19, 2009 6:54 AM PDT /
The deaths of an off-duty California Highway Patrol officer and his 
family in a runaway Lexus, its brakes on fire, point to a troubling 
possibility that millions of Toyota and Lexus autos on American roads 
have serious throttle control problems.

The Los Angeles Times analyzed public records on runaway Lexus and 
Toyota autos, and reports that the malfunction that killed the San 
Diego-area family may have been far more serious than a floor mat jammed 
on a gas pedal.

The newspaper quotes experts who say that the keyless ignition, 
automatic transmission controls, and computerized gas throttle controls 
combine to make millions of Toyota and Lexus cars susceptible to a stuck 
gas pedal that overwhelms brakes, making it impossible for even a 
trained Highway Patrol officer to save his family's lives as their car 
sped at 120 mph.

"This is Toyota's Firestone," concluded Sean Kane, a Massachussetts auto 
safety consultant to The Times, referring to defective radial tires that 
caused a series of fatal crashes.

Lexus is the high-end brand name for cars built by Toyota. And Toyota's 
chief executive Akio Toyoda has apologized publicly for the wreck, 
indicating how serious the company views the matter.

"Customers bought our cars because they thought they were the safest," 
Toyoda said.

"But now we have given them cause for grave concern. I can't begin to 
express my remorse."

Mark Saylor was driving his wife, daughter and brother in law to the 
girl's soccer practice Aug. 28 when the in-law called 911 to report the 
car was hurtling up a La Mesa freeway, its throttle stuck. "We're in 
trouble ... there's no brakes," said Chris Lastrella.

The car went down a ramp and into an intersection, and the 911 system 
recorded screams as the Lexus hit another car and went down an embankment.

Toyota has blamed the stuck gas pedal on floor mats, and ordered the 
recall of 3.8 million cars dating back to 2004. But experts interviewed 
by The Times say there may have been other factors as well:

-- The Lexus sedan was equipped with an automatic transmission control 
that mimics old-fashioned manual shifters, making it difficult for a 
driver to shift to neutral while the car is moving.

-- The power assist brakes rely on a vacuum that diminishes as the 
engine revs faster, reducing the braking assistance to near zero if the 
engine is roaring.

-- The manual brakes are unable to stop a 272-horsepower engine getting 
an open throttle and moving 120 mph.

-- The keyless ignition system requires a driver to hold a dashboard 
button down for three seconds to turn the engine off, a fact that is 
disclosed in the vehicle manual but may not be obvious to a motorist.

And perhaps most-damning, the car's computers do not reduce gas flow to 
the engine when the brakes are applied.

The Times reports that the combination of design features may have been 
so impossible for a driver that even a 19-year CHP veteran could not 
regain control of the Lexus, which had been lent to the family while 
Saylor's wife's Lexus was in for service at a dealership.

The brakes on the doomed Lexus near San Diego were reportedly on fire as 
he car hurtled up the freeway.

The San Diego County sheriff's department and CHP are still 
investigating the August wreck that killed Saylor, his wife Cleofe 
Lastrella, 13-year-old daughter Mahala, and the brother in law, Chris 
Lastrella.

"I don't think you can stop a car going 120 mph and an engine at full 
throttle without power assist," said Clarence Ditlow, executive director 
of the nonprofit Center for Auto Safety, in an interview with The Times. 
A driver would have to exert 225 pounds of pressure on the foot pedal to 
generate enough force to engage the brakes.

The Times quoted experts who said the obvious remedy for shutting off 
the engine -- turning the car off -- was not apparent to a driver not 
well-versed in the three-second button push maneuver mentioned in the 
owners manual.


And shifting the gears to neutral may have been difficult, had the 
driver even thought if it, due to the configuration of the shifter, the 
newspaper reported.