PZEV "controversy"

Thu Jun 28 06:25:03 PDT 2012

Aaaaaaaaannnnd it's confirmed, I've been proven wrong.

I've got a 2012 TT-RS, it's a ULEV. However today I'm doing a turbo on a 2012 Jetta GLI which says it conforms to Cali PZEV. I'm now rather confused because every document I've ever read says that a PZEV **must** have all metal fuel lines, but this car has rubber in the engine bay. The fuel lines from the tank to the engine bay are metal though. I feel like pulling the rear seat to see if there's a lid on the fuel tank or if it's sealed lol.

-Cody Forbes

On Jun 27, 2012, at 1:01 AM, Steve Meyer <quattroslm at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I've been test driving Passats and Jettas the last week. I'll check it out later this week if I have time to drive the Jetta sedan. I really like the Sportwagen with Panoramic roof, but it was TDI and I can't justify the $29,000 price tag!
> 
> Steve
> 
> From: Mark Rosenkrantz <speedracer.mark at gmail.com>
> To: Cody Forbes <cody at 5000tq.com> 
> Cc: Audi List <quattro at audifans.com> 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 10:44 PM
> Subject: Re: PZEV "controversy"
> 
> Cool!  I was understanding all of the 2.5L (5 cyl) VWs were PZEV for
> several years... and the 2.0L (4 cyl) TFSI engine is in our new car as
> well... but I'm in NY.  Some of the stickers are under the hood- literally-
> on the underside of the sheet metal hood itself.  I can e-mail pictures if
> you'd like.
> 
> Mark
> 
> On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 9:29 PM, Cody Forbes <cody at 5000tq.com> wrote:
> 
> > I'm open minded about it, and I have been wrong before (but then I found I
> > was wrong about that too). I think that the cost associated with the
> > fuel/EVAP system makes it worthwhile to make non-PZEV hardware equipped
> > cars. I have a '12 TT-RS for the next few days, I'll check it. Had a couple
> > '12 GTI's, a '12 Q7, and an S5 since this discussion started and hadn't
> > thought to check them. I'm thinking it's not likely in the performance
> > models, but maybe in the GTI's. Worst case scenario I'll visit the Dub
> > dealer down the road at lunch sometime soon... perfect excuse to visit the
> > Hooters across the street lol!
> >
> > -Cody Forbes
> >
> > On Jun 26, 2012, at 9:00 PM, Mark Rosenkrantz <speedracer.mark at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > NY (a PZEV state), Binghamton area.
> >
> > Just curious, as I've been told that in at least some cases, a "PZEV" car
> > and a NON-pzev car are mechanically identical.  I've also heard what I
> > found with the Subaru link.... the only changes are the catalytic converter
> > and ECU tuning, but I've never heard the EVAP system was changed in any
> > vehicle to make it PZEV compliant.  Just don't let my curiosity make this
> > ending up a Torsen thread.  =)
> >
> > Clearly, there are different manufacturers out there, and evolution has
> > happened with time.  So I was trying to use VAG cars to compare.
> >
> > Mark Rosenkrantz
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 7:19 PM, Cody Forbes <cody at 5000tq.com> wrote:
> >
> >> What state are you in? (sorry if I missed it)
> >>
> >> -Cody Forbes
> >>
> >> On Jun 26, 2012, at 2:43 PM, Mark Rosenkrantz <speedracer.mark at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > I took delivery of a 2012 VW Jetta GLi Autobahn with Navigation, 6 speed
> >> > manual last week, for the wife.  I can confirm it is a PZEV, and the
> >> > sticker under the hood states "conforms to...."
> >> >
> >> > A little browsing found this:
> >> > http://drive2.subaru.com/Fall08/Fall08_whatmakes.htm
> >> >
> >> > From fall of 2008, Subaru claims it's PZEV vehicles are available in
> >> > non-PZEV states, as an option.
> >> > In other words, the EPA didn't have a PZEV category, so as long as the
> >> > vehicle fits into another EPA category (they all do), it's LEGAL to
> >> sell a
> >> > "PZEV" vehicle in any state a long as they meet all other regulations
> >> (they
> >> > all do).  It's just that the manufacturer doesn't get any "credits" for
> >> > selling a PZEV vehicle in a "non-PZEV" state.  It's worth noting the
> >> > careful wording on the underhood stickers as "conforms to" the
> >> california
> >> > PZEV requirements.  The window (Monroney) sticker can then be tailored,
> >> > state-to-state.
> >> >
> >> > But in PZEV states, the manufacturers need to sell a certain percentage
> >> of
> >> > PZEV cars in the fleet every year to even be able to do business in the
> >> > state.  I've read, and I don't know if this is true, that running a
> >> riding
> >> > lawnmower for a 1 acre lawn mowing session (1-2 gallons?) puts out more
> >> > pollutants than 2000 miles in a PZEV car.  I've also read that in a high
> >> > smog area, tailpipe emmission of a PZEV are often cleaner than the
> >> > surrounding air.  Probably just hype, but still impressive if even
> >> > semi-true.
> >> >
> >> > Anyone in a non-PZEV state want to head to a VW dealer and look under
> >> the
> >> > hood for PZEV stickers on a Jetta or Golf 2.5L as well as a GLi or GTi
> >> with
> >> > the 2.0 TSI engine?  If so, I can send you pictures of my car's stickers
> >> > and thier locations.
> >> >
> >> > Mark Rosenkrantz
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > quattro mailing list
> >> > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/quattro
> >> > http://www.audifans.com/kb/List_information
> >>
> >
> >
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