VW 2.0T question

[Cody Forbes]

Well said Grant!

To follow up on Mikes race car statements, which is where my experience can allow me to comment, most use synthetics exclusively. The primary reason is the extreme temperature capabilities. We try to keep oil temps under 325F, but 350 is the point at which most crew chiefs will tell the driver he needs to worry about it and short shift until it cools. Only good synthetics can withstand that. Motul is common (what I'm using currently), and Amsoil is very popular. Most racing oils, synthetic or otherwise, aren't legal for road use though due to elevated ZDDP (essentially zinc phosphate) levels which kill cats. 

But the needs and uses are different. You can't say "race cars use (or dont use) X oil so that's what I should use in my street car". That's kinda like saying you really like your dentist so you are having him do your kidney surgery too. 

Many, many road race cars have oil related failures. Most are insufficient pressure due to increasing RPM without raising the relief valve pressure, closely followed by overheating the oil due to lack of cooling capacity. Most race engines use an array of coatings on anything that has friction to help the oils do their job - I run Calico CT-1 Dry Film on all bearings and DLC on piston skirts. Both help keep things from going south even when the oils do break down.


Go check out the Motor Oil University section at BobIsTheOilGuy.com. It's full of valuable information on the topic.


One last word on consumption: Per the PZEV emissions standard any compliant vehicle may not consume more than 3.5 quarts over 150,000 miles. I'm told that some, maybe Prius, spec 1 quart per 100,000 miles.

-Cody Forbes (mobile)

On Nov 29, 2012, at 8:35 PM, Grant Lenahan <glenahan at vfemail.net> wrote:

> Folks, do we understand what synthetic is?  Its seems not.
> 
> Its fundamentally the same stuff - but with the molecular distribution (chain length, impurities) much closer to the ideal (smaller standard deviation from ideal) due to one of two methods:
> 
> 1. molecules built up in a manufacturing process
> 2. regular oil modified by elimination of impurities and off-length chains
> 
> The different methods determine the bas stock type.
> 
> A synthetic, therefore, is what a traditional oil aspires to be - uniform, and low in impurities.
> 
> There were at one time "break in oils" - they were either a) thin or 2) infused with very, very fine abrasives that self-destructed, much as the abrasive in polishing compound does.Consequently it breaks down less at high temperatures, because it has fewer light components, and fewer VIIs that erode over time.
> 
> Similarly it flow better at low temperatures, for much the reverse reason - fewer long-chain and sludge inducing components.
> 
> Its VI (ability to change its viscosity with temperature) is higher because it does not rely on VIIs that are essentially temperature-dependent molecules that unravel at high temps and curl back up at lower ones.
> 
> Finally, and this has nothing at all to do with being synthetic - it generally has a better and more long-lasting additive package (on of the real differences between oils and more importantly oil types).
> 
> Synthetic is NOT necessarily "more slippery". Most drag in fact comes from viscosity related friction - you can trade wear for low friction; and you can add barrier-lubrication elements, but they generally raise viscosity a bit (molybdenum, titanium, boron)
> 
> What does this mean?  Synthetics MUST be OK for break in.  It also means a good dino oil, used within its temperature and shear limits, will do great - and that can be (properly selected) 99% of all applications.
> 
> note i would NOT use dino for turbo cars, since their VI is too low and their flame points are too low - synth will provide better protection (just read the specs). This is not due to magic, but due to the very unique failure mode of turbos - oil comes into a super heated turbine, int he exhaust path, spinning at 100k rpms. It may cook and begin to sludge. Most likely it won't.  But when you shut down, it stops circulating.  Heat soak occurs, and it heats up, first past its sludge point, then maybe to the point that it begins to form coke (yes, the stuff the stoke blast furnaces with). The sludge blocks the oil path, reducing flow. The coke is a super hard abrasive and begins to deteriorate the turbine bearing 9100k rpm, remember?) - and it fails. QED.
> 
> The rest falls in the category of urban legend, misinformation and conjecture.
> 
> Grant
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 29, 2012, at 8:15 PM, Eric Huppert wrote:
> 
>> Alrighty, here's my 2 cents based on my service manager duties in a small
>> shop specializing in Vintage cars (but working on everything).. We have a
>> very varied clientele, vehicles range from million $ collectable Rolls
>> Royce's to daily drivers (all makes, nice to POS's!) Have had numerous
>> occasions with customers switching to us (from other shops) and having oil
>> consumption issues using "special" European synthetic oils. Switch back to
>> dino and consumption decreased drastically.  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Okay, flame away synthetic believers... I've had four Audis that exceeded
>> 300k, USING dino! (200 20v hit the mark last week, still no oil consumption,
>> wahoo!) Understand the alleged reasoning, molecular structure, etc behind
>> synthetic (heat, turbo, etc) but really haven't personally experienced the
>> benefits. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Nor do I recommend synthetic for vehicles not speced that way from the
>> manufacturer. (Our Lexus 460 customer specifies synthetic, 9.1 qts worth!)
>> I feel its way overpriced, I don't believe in extended mileage oil changes
>> and I like for my customers to keep some of their hard earned money. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Poor break-in, oil changes "overdue" by many thousands, so on and so forth
>> will create mechanical/consumption issues, regardless of oil used!. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Regardless, have seen many times where switching back to dino decreased
>> consumption! I'm basing this statement on "my" firsthand experience, several
>> of which were VW's!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> So, game NOT on... I probably shouldn't have gone down this path! 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Signed,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Anonymous
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> (Will my username show????haha)
>> 
>> 
>> 
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