quattro Digest, Vol 111, Issue 32

Fri Feb 1 18:29:49 PST 2013

Please take me off of your distribution list.  Thank you.

Sincerely,
Bruce Schiefelbein

-----Original Message-----
From: quattro-bounces at audifans.com [mailto:quattro-bounces at audifans.com] On
Behalf Of quattro-request at audifans.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 7:20 PM
To: quattro at audifans.com
Subject: quattro Digest, Vol 111, Issue 32

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: dead cats (Mike Arman)
   2. Re: dead cats (Tihol Tiholov)
   3. Re: Re; Ugh! (Vincent Gelinas)
   4. Re: Re; Ugh! (Grant Lenahan)
   5. Re: dead cats (Grant Lenahan)
   6. Dead Cats (Scruggs Family)
   7. Re: Re; Ugh! (Cody Forbes)
   8. Re: Re; Ugh! (Jason)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 17:01:17 -0500
From: Mike Arman <Armanmik at earthlink.net>
To: Grant Lenahan <glenahan at vfemail.net>
Cc: Ellen O <doubldz at aol.com>, quattro at audifans.com
Subject: Re: dead cats
Message-ID: <5109982D.40007 at earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 1/30/2013 4:05 PM, Grant Lenahan wrote:
> there's a difference between "wont get caught" and "legal".
>
> Until they carry QQ plates all cars must meet the emissions for the year
they were manufactured.

This may be a state thing . . . what's a QQ plate? We don't have them in
Florida.

In fact, we don't have vehicle inspections here either! This has been gone
for probably 20 years.
State did a study of the causes of accidents and found that equipment
deficiencies (the things they looked for in the inspections) were #47 on a
scale of 1 to 50, with 1 being the most risk and 50 being the least. Vehicle
inspections were just not cost effective!!!!!

(Of course the fact that the new governor made getting rid of vehicle
inspections one of his campaign promises didn't hurt either . . . )

>
> I have no idea what the 5/50 refers to.

Five years, 50,000 miles was the original federal requirement. After 1995
model year it went to 
8/80. Note that this number is where the manufacturer has to fix it under
warranty.

After the required manufacturer warranty runs out things get murky indeed.

For some years, owners were allowed to remove this stuff on their own cars,
but businesses couldn't 
remove smog equipment from customer cars. That has changed, and now the
official word is (or seems 
to be) that if it was EVER installed, it has to work forever.

In reality, very, very few people have ever been ticketed or fined for this.
99.99999% of inspection 
stations (if there even is inspection) and 99.999999999999% of law officers
don't know what smog 
equipment is supposed to be there on a 22 year old low production exotic
Audi - heck, even the 
DEALERS don't know what is supposed to be there . . .

It is a numbers game - if your state doesn't do sniff tests or emission
tests or vehicle inspections 
AND you are not in the habit of playing boy racer and getting pulled over
constantly, chances are 
you will not ever get caught, illegal or not (and it does seem to be illegal
to remove them).

Personally, I'd cobble up some kind of converter system so if the question
ever arose, I'd be legal 
- I prefer not to transgress simply because I like to sleep at night. The
risk is slight (but it is 
there), so you have to make your own decision. If I lived in Montana or
Idaho, I'd possibly take the 
chance - not a lot of law enforcement contact. If I lived in a major metro
area, no way, there are 
too many opportunities for contact with LEOs who might be sticklers for
compliance. If I lived in a 
smog-check state, I'd have two choices - comply or move.

Of course, after I eventually sell the car (as is!!), it becomes someone
else's problem anyway.

Best Regards,

Mike Arman

90V8Q

And Ellen, $5,061 is RETAIL and RETAIL is for OTHER PEOPLE. Don't cry, laugh
instead.

You should be able to get this done for a few hundred dollars if you can
find a used system. Talk to 
Ron W in Massachussetts - he parts out V8s, or Chris at Force5 (?). Your
mechanic isn't helping you 
here . . .

> Emissions equipment must be warranted by the manufacturer for 8/80 - but
after that YOU must maintain it.
>

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 14:07:41 -0800
From: Tihol Tiholov <t.tiholov at gmail.com>
To: quattro at audifans.com
Subject: Re: dead cats
Message-ID:
	<CAFgi7AZf0MzwQkjeoP0bHuN+xTwscMuxmeNVRTd+G_8cwDZnPA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

> You might not get caught, but it's definitely illegal to modify the car in
this fashion.

1 thing that hasn't been said - gut the kitty. No obvious mod done.
Alternative? $5K+ for OEM? I beg yer pahdon.
How much does a welding course cost?

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 17:13:35 -0500
From: Vincent Gelinas <vrgelinas at gmail.com>
To: doubldz at aol.com
Cc: quattro at audifans.com
Subject: Re: Re; Ugh!
Message-ID:
	<CAAKpQ1aa0mCdVQEAc25cUA6RWz0pnKvwtZXqsqLX=xqthCEsvA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

For my 1/50 of a dollar, I *know* Chris at Force5 has a few V8q ships
laying around in Concord. He's very reasonable and probably your best bet.
On Jan 30, 2013 4:53 PM, "EllenO" <doubldz at aol.com> wrote:

> Mechanic found them at $5061.
> Heartbroken. I'll check the sites you suggested when I stop crying.
> D
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 30, 2013, at 3:00 PM, quattro-request at audifans.com wrote:
> >
> >
> >> I wish it was dead mouse smell, but it's dead cat smell.
> _______________________________________________
> quattro mailing list
> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/quattro
> http://www.audifans.com/kb/List_information
>

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 18:53:07 -0500
From: Grant Lenahan <glenahan at vfemail.net>
To: EllenO <doubldz at aol.com>
Cc: "quattro at audifans.com" <quattro at audifans.com>
Subject: Re: Re; Ugh!
Message-ID: <2C65EBFD-9FBF-4B9E-A3FF-B89F4EB66616 at vfemail.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

that's high even for OEM
Call Suncoast; others

Heck, call RPM automotive in NJ (as k for Pat).

generally only wholesale, but for a big job i'm sure he'll ship

Grant

On Jan 30, 2013, at 4:47 PM, EllenO wrote:

> Mechanic found them at $5061. 
> Heartbroken. I'll check the sites you suggested when I stop crying. 
> D
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 30, 2013, at 3:00 PM, quattro-request at audifans.com wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> I wish it was dead mouse smell, but it's dead cat smell.
> _______________________________________________
> quattro mailing list
> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/quattro
> http://www.audifans.com/kb/List_information
> 

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 18:53:43 -0500
From: Grant Lenahan <glenahan at vfemail.net>
To: Mike Arman <Armanmik at earthlink.net>
Cc: Ellen O <doubldz at aol.com>, quattro at audifans.com
Subject: Re: dead cats
Message-ID: <0F72665D-0D09-447F-88A9-8E320DF4AFC7 at vfemail.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Sure you do. Classic/antique. Can differ, but everyone has them

25+ years old

Grant
On Jan 30, 2013, at 5:01 PM, Mike Arman wrote:

> On 1/30/2013 4:05 PM, Grant Lenahan wrote:
>> there's a difference between "wont get caught" and "legal".
>> 
>> Until they carry QQ plates all cars must meet the emissions for the year
they were manufactured.
> 
> 
> This may be a state thing . . . what's a QQ plate? We don't have them in
Florida.
> 
> 
> In fact, we don't have vehicle inspections here either! This has been gone
for probably 20 years.
> State did a study of the causes of accidents and found that equipment
deficiencies (the things they looked for in the inspections) were #47 on a
scale of 1 to 50, with 1 being the most risk and 50 being the least. Vehicle
inspections were just not cost effective!!!!!
> 
> (Of course the fact that the new governor made getting rid of vehicle
inspections one of his campaign promises didn't hurt either . . . )
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> I have no idea what the 5/50 refers to.
> 
> 
> Five years, 50,000 miles was the original federal requirement. After 1995
model year it went to 8/80. Note that this number is where the manufacturer
has to fix it under warranty.
> 
> 
> After the required manufacturer warranty runs out things get murky indeed.
> 
> 
> For some years, owners were allowed to remove this stuff on their own
cars, but businesses couldn't remove smog equipment from customer cars. That
has changed, and now the official word is (or seems to be) that if it was
EVER installed, it has to work forever.
> 
> 
> In reality, very, very few people have ever been ticketed or fined for
this. 99.99999% of inspection stations (if there even is inspection) and
99.999999999999% of law officers don't know what smog equipment is supposed
to be there on a 22 year old low production exotic Audi - heck, even the
DEALERS don't know what is supposed to be there . . .
> 
> 
> It is a numbers game - if your state doesn't do sniff tests or emission
tests or vehicle inspections AND you are not in the habit of playing boy
racer and getting pulled over constantly, chances are you will not ever get
caught, illegal or not (and it does seem to be illegal to remove them).
> 
> Personally, I'd cobble up some kind of converter system so if the question
ever arose, I'd be legal - I prefer not to transgress simply because I like
to sleep at night. The risk is slight (but it is there), so you have to make
your own decision. If I lived in Montana or Idaho, I'd possibly take the
chance - not a lot of law enforcement contact. If I lived in a major metro
area, no way, there are too many opportunities for contact with LEOs who
might be sticklers for compliance. If I lived in a smog-check state, I'd
have two choices - comply or move.
> 
> Of course, after I eventually sell the car (as is!!), it becomes someone
else's problem anyway.
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Mike Arman
> 
> 90V8Q
> 
> 
> And Ellen, $5,061 is RETAIL and RETAIL is for OTHER PEOPLE. Don't cry,
laugh instead.
> 
> You should be able to get this done for a few hundred dollars if you can
find a used system. Talk to Ron W in Massachussetts - he parts out V8s, or
Chris at Force5 (?). Your mechanic isn't helping you here . . .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Emissions equipment must be warranted by the manufacturer for 8/80 - but
after that YOU must maintain it.
>> 
> 

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 18:04:29 -0500
From: "Scruggs Family" <gjkzscruggs at verizon.net>
To: <quattro at audifans.com>
Subject: Dead Cats
Message-ID: <00fd01cdff3e$28b22070$7a166150$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"

Regarding Cody's comment. 

"+1 to Grant. Not only illegal, but in fact it is a felony to remove the cat
on a road going vehicle. 

That said, everybody does it and very few outside of Cali get caught.

-Cody Forbes (mobile)"

I seem to recall that it is illegal for a licensed mechanic to remove/modify
a cat but the owner is not covered by that law.  Additionally, my '87 5kCStq
passed CA emissions back in '98 with an empty cat.  I hadn't intended to
have it inspected after that track day but wondered how sensitive their
equipment was.  They said, "your cat is quite weak."  I thought, "so is your
test."  YMMV

Gross Scruggs
Annapolis MD

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 19:44:20 -0500
From: Cody Forbes <cody at 5000tq.com>
To: Vincent Gelinas <vrgelinas at gmail.com>
Cc: "quattro at audifans.com" <quattro at audifans.com>,	"doubldz at aol.com"
	<doubldz at aol.com>
Subject: Re: Re; Ugh!
Message-ID: <14996E43-1F2F-43F7-9EF1-1A53CB6C82BD at 5000tq.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=us-ascii

It is a felony to sell a used cat.

The best bet here is aftermarket cats welded to the stock downpipes.

-Cody Forbes (mobile)

On Jan 30, 2013, at 5:13 PM, Vincent Gelinas <vrgelinas at gmail.com> wrote:

> For my 1/50 of a dollar, I *know* Chris at Force5 has a few V8q ships
> laying around in Concord. He's very reasonable and probably your best bet.
> On Jan 30, 2013 4:53 PM, "EllenO" <doubldz at aol.com> wrote:
> 
>> Mechanic found them at $5061.
>> Heartbroken. I'll check the sites you suggested when I stop crying.
>> D
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 30, 2013, at 3:00 PM, quattro-request at audifans.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> I wish it was dead mouse smell, but it's dead cat smell.
>> _______________________________________________
>> quattro mailing list
>> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/quattro
>> http://www.audifans.com/kb/List_information
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> quattro mailing list
> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/quattro
> http://www.audifans.com/kb/List_information

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 20:19:54 -0500
From: Jason <uberhare at gmail.com>
To: Cody Forbes <cody at 5000tq.com>
Cc: "quattro at audifans.com" <quattro at audifans.com>,	"doubldz at aol.com"
	<doubldz at aol.com>
Subject: Re: Re; Ugh!
Message-ID:
	<CAGydU8RY+HvH6U-jTinBjnnbLcsvb6QtDAuo=puEj2BzjUpENQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I would install a good used oem cat anyday over an aftermarket.

Jason
On 2013-01-30 7:51 PM, "Cody Forbes" <cody at 5000tq.com> wrote:

> It is a felony to sell a used cat.
>
> The best bet here is aftermarket cats welded to the stock downpipes.
>
> -Cody Forbes (mobile)
>
> On Jan 30, 2013, at 5:13 PM, Vincent Gelinas <vrgelinas at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > For my 1/50 of a dollar, I *know* Chris at Force5 has a few V8q ships
> > laying around in Concord. He's very reasonable and probably your best
> bet.
> > On Jan 30, 2013 4:53 PM, "EllenO" <doubldz at aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Mechanic found them at $5061.
> >> Heartbroken. I'll check the sites you suggested when I stop crying.
> >> D
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> On Jan 30, 2013, at 3:00 PM, quattro-request at audifans.com wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> I wish it was dead mouse smell, but it's dead cat smell.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> quattro mailing list
> >> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/quattro
> >> http://www.audifans.com/kb/List_information
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > quattro mailing list
> > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/quattro
> > http://www.audifans.com/kb/List_information
> _______________________________________________
> quattro mailing list
> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/quattro
> http://www.audifans.com/kb/List_information
>

------------------------------

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End of quattro Digest, Vol 111, Issue 32
****************************************