Sludge

Wed May 29 18:05:20 PDT 2013

The particulate matter won't ever reach the filter really. The filter is next in line after the oil pump as far as flow path. Particles fall to the pan, get stuck in pickup tube screen, don't get pumped in to the filter. If you do something that causes this stuff to be loosened up and cleaned off the various parts it gets flushed in to the pan.

 If you don't do something to clean it you likely won't end up with a clogged screen any time soon.

If you run a cleaner chemical and drain the oil IMMEDIATELY after shutting off the engine you might wash most of it out via the drain plug before its had a chance to really settle down. Maybe even dump some thin liquid in the top of the engine with the drain plug out, but I'm not sure what one would use. ATF maybe? 

-Cody Forbes (mobile)

On May 29, 2013, at 8:03 PM, Grant Lenahan <glenahan at vfemail.net> wrote:

> Would a safer approach to cleaning maybe be:
> 
> 1. change oil and filter with cheap oil and filter a few times at 1000-2000 mile intervals.
> 2. Then run a gentle flush like rislone? or your favoruite (but rislone is pretty gentle)
> 
> Grant
> On May 29, 2013, at 6:42 PM, Cody Forbes wrote:
> 
>> It's a very different situation. The screen on the pickup of a modern VAG engine is significantly more fine than any other vehicle I've ever seen. There's cars out there with oil filters that aren't as fine as these screens. That means they get clogged easily. Also the level of sludge crap is WAY higher. Did your British car friends get involved in a class action lawsuit over their engine being so badly sludged? 
>> 
>> I'm speaking not from conjecture or third-hand evidence. This is what I have seen with my own eyes. I've replaced oil pickups on these cars and THEN ran cleaner through it and been left waiting for a tow truck due to the oil pressure warning light because the particulate matter clogged the new screen. Learned that lesson. I've dealt with dozens of these engines that have failed due to this problem.
>> 
>> -Cody Forbes (mobile)
>> 
>> On May 29, 2013, at 3:38 PM, Dan DiBiase <d_dibiase at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> A lot of folks in British car circles swear by Seafoam as a cleaner, and I don't believe they drop the pan to clear out.
>>> 
>>> Dan D
>>> '04 A4 1.8Tq MT-6
>>> Central NJ USA
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: John Larson <viejoloco at comcast.net>
>>> To: Cody Forbes <cody at 5000tq.com> 
>>> Cc: Steve B <urq at pacbell.net>; Qlist <quattro at audifans.com> 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:28 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Re: Sludge
>>> 
>>> On 5/29/2013 5:33 AM, Cody Forbes wrote:
>>>> I would like to add that you DO NOT wa by to use a engine cleaning product without being fully ready to have the oil pan off. Part of the sludge issue is particulate matter; tiny chunks of build up that looks like large grain black sand. This stuff is too large to fit through the screen on the oil pickup, but small enough to be suspended in the oil so it gets sucked up and lodged in said screen. If your cleaner product does its job all of this crud that was trapped in goo will end up in your oil pickup and leave you with a lack of oil pressure. Mayhem follows.
>>>> 
>>>> -Cody Forbes (mobile)
>>>> 
>>>> On May 28, 2013, at 6:27 PM, Cody Forbes <cody at 5000tq.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> It's very hard to really get a great picture unfortunately. A reasonable indication is the under side of the oil cap. If its decent you have a chance that the engine is also decent. If its covered in gooey tar like substance than its likely that everything else is too.  Service records are helpful, high quality synthetic oil at 5000 mile intervals is a must.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If I were buying one here's what I would do. I would right off the bat plan on some cleaning. I would run some BG engine cleaner for a round trip from the shop to home and back (50 miles), drain it out, fill with the best oil I would feel ok with throwing away, add cleaner again, and do two round trips. Then I would pull the oil pan, replace the oil pickup tube, and clean everything I could touch. Also would pull the cam cover, clean everything in there, replace the VVT gasket, replace the cam cover gasket. Reassemble, fill with Motul 505.01 VW specific, and never worry again. My labor is "free" however so this method isn't for everybody.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Cody Forbes (mobile)
>>>>> 
>>>>> On May 28, 2013, at 6:14 PM, Steve B <urq at pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> We're looking for another car, and the early 2000's A4 looks like a fit.  It seems that one of the major issues with these cars is the sludge problem with the 1.8T.  Is there a good way to know whether or not a particular car may be subject to a problem with sludge?  I'm looking at a 2002 model if that makes a difference.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>> Steve Buchholz
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>>> I have had great success with Amway engine cleaner.  However, I agree 
>>> that you should probably be prepared to drop the pan afterward unless 
>>> you're using the cleaner in a relatively clean engine.  It's a HUGE job 
>>> for the DIYer, BTW.  Bad enough in a shop situation.
>>> 
>>> John
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