[s-cars] I love the dealer's story

[Fred Munro]

Hi Rich;

I've been following your saga with some interest. Two scenarios occur to me:

1. Bonehead technician removes timing belt before loosening crank bolt. He
uses the intake valves on #4 cylinder as a crank lock to loosen the bolt
(gee, guys, how come this innovative solution never occurred to any of us?),
thereby bending them. He reassembles the engine timed correctly and starts
it to hear the clatter of the #4 intake valves striking the piston because
they can't close completely. It takes 5 minutes for the noise of the valve
clatter to speed along his synapses from his ear to his brain and he shuts
off the engine. Duh!

2. Bonehead technician bends valves in #4 as above. He reassembles the
engine out of time. He starts it up and hears multiple valves striking
pistons. Synapse speed is as above.

It's hard to tell what actually happened, Dave. Their initial comment about
having to change the timing a bit is worrisome, unless they were just
guessing that it was out of time and didn't know the valves had been bent
during the "repair". They obviously are totally clueless, have been lying to
you, or both. Only a full inspection will tell if the other valves are OK. I
think the rebuilt head option mentioned by several listers is definitely
worth pursuing.

Anybody know if the #4 intake valves are fully open with the engine at TDC?
I'm guessing that they are - bonehead probably set the engine to TDC to
remove the belt. I can't imagine anyone trying to remove that crank bolt
without the proper locking tool (take heed, you guys that like the "rope
down the cylinder" and the "transmission bolt through the flywheel hole"
crank locking techniques).

HTH

Fred Munro
'94 S4


-----Original Message-----
From: s-car-list-admin at audifans.com
[mailto:s-car-list-admin at audifans.com]On Behalf Of David Molk
Sent: December 18, 2002 9:21 PM
To: S-CAR-List at audifans.com
Subject: [s-cars] I love the dealer's story


Ok, Ok, let's get on with it. First, I am using my son's computer (his
name is David, Mine is Richard
Second, did the motor run after they botched the timing belt? Yeah.
The customer service guy told me on the second day when I arrived to
pick up the car after the timing belt, and 24 hours after it was
promised, that it made some funny noises when they started it up, and
so they had to change the timing a bit, but don't worry, it will be
ready the next day by noon for sure.
When I asked him if it was an interference fit motor, as I suspected it
was, he said OH NO, not an interference fit. Then he told me I looked
angry and he did not like my "snide appearance". Yes that is what he
said.  I told him I was not snide, just furious, as it was going to
take three days for a one day fix. Furthermore, I suspected he was
wrong about the interference fit and that the pistons had contacted the
valves.
That was my first contact with THE LIST. I got you guys off google, and
Chad Tobin was nice enough to confirm my fears that the motor was
indeed interference fit.
I told this to the dealer tech consultant (and assorted other titles)
the next day, and both he and the service manager admitted the motor
had been started. In fact, the tech told me by the sound of the motor
only one valve had been damaged. I told him that was just untrue, so he
said, well, then maybe two valves.
Now on to the motor. I have rebuilt a couple of volvo motors, an alfa
romeo motor and a motorcycle motor. I love the grease. This head has
both of the large valves in the number four cylinder (intake?) bent in
the fully open position and locked up in a C shape to come back and
contact the inside edge of the dome of the head. The piston has a score
in the edge of the cut out for the valves to clear the top of the
piston, where I assume it is already quite thin because of the valve
clearance cut outs. I cannot imagine the valve guides are ok when the
valves are this bent, so bent they cannot possible close, and must have
repeatedly beat the pistons, until they were crushed enough out of the
way.
Also, because only two valves are obviously and grievously damaged
certainly does not mean the rest are ok. I won't allow them to fully
disassemble the head to test the rest, as they have already tried to
lie to me about the non interference nature of the motor. By the way,
That lie may qualify as violation of the consumer protection laws and
open the door to the AG's office, as it is illegal to falsely report
damage to a consumer.
Furthermore, as an ophthalmic surgeon, I know I am held to a higher
standard of expertise and care than the general practitioner when it
comes to eyes, as I am supposedly the trained expert. It seems to me
that an authorized Audi dealer would be held to a higher standard of
care as well, as they are the supposed Audi experts to whom we trust
our highly technical cars for factory service. When they use
unauthorized techniques on our cars, and then cause severe damage, they
should be and probably legally are held to a higher standard than the
corner garage.

What gripes me about Audi is their refusal to tell me what the factory
recommendation for a broken timing belt motor should be. That would be
most useful information to have in dealing with Hoffman. Audi of
America said my lawyer should be able to get that information. How's
that for help!?

You guys are great. I have absolutely no doubt that motor was run, and
no doubt more damage is present than the two valves. Obviously, the
dealer is trying to perform damage control when they say they did not
run it to other people who ask. They absolutely did tell me it was run,
hence the noises they heard. Luckily, I have a few other cars to run
and do not rely on this machine. Unfortunately, my wife has informed me
she has no faith in the car now, and expects to be stranded on a back
road when the piston melts or the next valve fails. It is really a
rotten situation, as the two thousand dollar estimate of timing belt
repair and tuneup led me to tell her to get a new car before we brought
this one in for service, but she declined as she loved the car. Now she
won't feel safe or secure.

Again, thank you all for your support and help.

Rich Molk on my son David's computer, hence his name appearing on the
email header.

95 S6 severely wounded
98 A6
71 Jaguar V12 (not yet running)
'90 Corvette ZR 1 (the beast)
67 Sunbeam tiger (my 300 HP rebuilt from scratch V8 killer - no it
can't be driven around turns with the steering wheel you have to hang
the back end out)
99 Ford diesel pickup (my usual ride to Hoffman's Audi, maybe that's
why they don't feel they have to respect me?)
99 Volvo v70R
2000 Volvo v70R
Upside down 65 Sunbeam tiger I have nearly finished the welding on and
have a full restoration planned

I told you I like working on cars.

Keep the ideas coming. I think you guys are the true experts.

Rich Molk

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