[s-cars] Bypass Valves and Pressure Losses (Uh, Pizzo??)

[mlp qwest]

Does anyone know of any installation or use of a complete, unadulterated
Garrett GT30R (i.e. go, for example, to
http://www.limitengineering.com/catalog.pdf and look to/at catalog page 21
of 48 for the specs/compressor map) on a UrS4/6?

If someone has, or knows of a GT30R installation, do you have any
information on the ease or difficulty of adapting the Garrett fittings to
the Audi mounting points, including (1) the exhaust manifold to turbo
flange; (2) turbo to downpipe; (3) air intake to MAF/Airbox feed; and
finally (4) the oil and water lines?

For one thing, it looks like one would have to adapt the hotside scroll from
a roughly 1.75"x ?? 2.75 to 3" rectangular Garrett exhaust maniflod mount to
the Audi/KKK's style round turbo mount outlet; or find a "round" port
hotside scroll that could be machined to fit the Garret GT30 turbine and
accept the ball bearing center housing.  An adapter for the 4" air intake
should be fairly simple to manage by comparison.

Last, does anyone have any real feel for the "truth" of Garrett's
advertising claims for their compressor wheels to be "... the most advanced,
state of the art etc. available ..."  How much, if anything, has really
changed in compressor inlet efficiency/design vs. the decades old either
Garret TO4E or the KKK K26 compressor wheels? or the turbine wheels for that
matter?

Mike Pederson


~-----Original Message-----
~From: s-car On Behalf Of Ned Ritchie
~Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 2:29 PM

~Mihnea,
~
~I don't know.  I don't have an air cooled K26 with a small exducer bore
~to compare with the 6.11; however, it maybe the same thing.
~
~I know that Roland and I buy from the same guys at 3K so it could be the
~same turbo.
~
~Ned
~
~-----Original Message-----
~From: s-car on Behalf Of Mihnea Cotet

~Ned, what about the small #6 K26 hot side (50mm exducer bore) used on
~oil
~cooled K26s???? MTM do such a turbo with a water cooled bearing housing,
~
~small turbine wheel and hot side housing, bolted on a 7200 cold side,
~and I
~happen to have one here on the bench...
~
~Mihnea
~
~At 10:11 23/12/2003 -0800, Ned Ritchie wrote:
~>A few of you already know from that for a sacrifice of about 10 hp at
~>the top I've used a custom turbo from the folks at 3K that will give
~RS2
~>power lower in the rpm range like 2400 rpm
~>For the purpose of comparison here are the specs.  All are RS2
~>compressors with the 10 mm shaft.  The differences are only in the
~>turbine section.
~>
~>K24  2672 GGC  6.13 -- Stock sized S4/S6 turbine
~>K24  2672 GGC  6.11 -- Custom size between stock and RS2
~>K24  2672 GGC  6.12 -- RS2 sized turbine
~>
~>(Yes, I know the numbers appear wrong for the turbine sizes, but that
~is
~>how 3K does it)
~>
~>On a twisty track or in and around town you can't beat the 6.11 turbine
~>
~>Ned
~>
~>-----Original Message-----
~>From: s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com
~>[mailto:s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com] On Behalf Of QSHIPQ at aol.com
~>Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2003 5:36 AM
~>To: mik at info.fundp.ac.be; gary.m.lewis2 at boeing.com;
~>s-car-list at audifans.com
~>Subject: Re: [s-cars] Bypass Valves and Pressure Losses (Uh, Pizzo??)
~>
~>I agree Minhea.  Look guys, if you are looking for 26psi on the I5, the
~>RS2
~>will hit it.  If you are looking for Flow at 26psi for xxxhp, the RS2
~>(modified
~>cold side) can hit it (I say up to about 480 or so - Minhea?).  If you
~>are
~>looking for 26psi at low RPM's on a 2.3L motor, I can't think of a
~>better turbo
~>for the task (well I can think of one, but Herr Meyer gets a lot of
~>money for
~>it).  If you take a big turbine and try to get it to do big things with
~>a
~>small motor, you will hit the surge line very quickly.  Surge sucks.
~>
~>Someone really (hey let's get Mikey) should put a couple of these
~>mongosized
~>turbo hybrids on a turbo dyno.  Chassis dynos only give part of the
~>story, as
~>several here are finding out.  I'm intrigued by solving turbo problems
~>with
~>bypass valves.  In fact Gary, using this logic, you are actually going
~>to
~>'increase' pressure losses to get 26psi at 3k.  Part throttle may just
~>require
~>bleeding of boost as several here will find out.  Especially at
~>altitude, these
~>problems are going to get worse, cuz the turbo is spinning faster to
~>attain the
~>same pressure ratio, which means a bigger problem at part throttle.
~>
~>IMO, you are going to see dual sequential turbos (already here) and
~>modified
~>scroll design (already here) as alternatives to one monster turbo
~trying
~>to be
~>both a lamb and a lion.
~>
~>My .02 arbitraged thru the peso
~>
~>Scott Justusson
~>QSHIPQ Performance Tuning
~>
~>
~>
~>
~>
~>In a message dated 12/22/2003 1:52:22 PM Central Standard Time,
~>mik at info.fundp.ac.be writes:
~>Gary,
~>
~>
~>If you had had a real RS2 turbo (I know the turbo itself is way too
~>expensive, I know!), you could have gotten 26 psi at 2.6k in 4th gear
~>while
~>accelerating WOT from 2k RPM.
~>
~>Just my 0.02 Euros worth of 20vt engines tuning,
~>
~>Mihnea
~>
~>At 11:43 22/12/2003 -0800, Lewis, Gary M wrote:
~> >Hi Hap,
~> >
~> >I oriented it from the bottom (pressure side), as the instructions
~> >indicated, with 6 shims, as Pizzo indicated.  It works far better
~than
~>the
~> >old 710N unit from a pressure loss standpoint (I gained 200 rpm in
~4th
~> >gear).  My current automotive goal in life is to reduce pressure
~losses
~>in
~> >hope of getting 26 psi at 3,000 rpm.  I'm making progress.
~> >
~> >I think the idea you postulate is really a neat one.  It should
~provide
~>
~> >far better response than a shimmed-to-the-max BPV.  Uses vaccuum
~> >primarily, not pressure and vaccum to open the valve.  I will try it.
~> >
~> >Sorry I took so long to answer, but I needed to think about this for
~a
~>few
~> >days.
~> >
~> >That Trevor is something else, ain't he?  The more I talk to him
~> >(virtually of course), the more I want to drive his car.  No to
~mention
~>
~> >your of course...
~> >
~> >Thanks Again,
~> >Gary Lewis
~>_______________________________________________
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