[s-cars] Fwd: [torsen] Re: 016 vs 01E and Turbo HP vs Torque

[Q]

Scott,
I generally agree, and I guess I can brag as I broke a tooth off 3rd in
an 016.

I do recall observing that Heinz Kluge's transmissions were without any
center diff of any kind.

The center portion of the rally main shafts were created by that "new
for the time" method using a bath and electricity to etch away all parts
of metal that did not look like the part needed.

Ned

-----Original Message-----
From: s-car-list-admin at audifans.com
[mailto:s-car-list-admin at audifans.com] On Behalf Of QSHIPQ at aol.com
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 7:19 AM
To: s-car-list at audifans.com
Subject: [s-cars] Fwd: [torsen] Re: 016 vs 01E and Turbo HP vs Torque

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Delivered-To: torsen at audifans.com
From: QSHIPQ at aol.com
To: rpastore at animalfeeds.com, benswann at comcast.net
Cc: JShadzi at aol.com, quattro at audifans.com, 200q20v at audifans.com,
    auditude at cox.net, urq at audifans.com, torsen at audifans.com,
    robert_a_dupree at bankone.com
Subject: [torsen] Re: 016 vs 01E and Turbo HP vs Torque
Sender: torsen-admin at audifans.com
Precedence: bulk
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 21:32:00 EST
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[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Ok, this and some on the HP/torque discussion.  I really doubt that you
can
overkill the 016 TQ transmission any more than the O1E transmission in
actuality.  First, the 016TQ is good for about 400 turbo HP, then it
tends to
blow out 3rd gear (which is really a torque problem, cuz max torque on
turbo
cars tends to happen in 3rd).  With 350 ft/lb+ of torque (Bob's LT1Q
specifically) it will rip the front ring and pinion (before 3rd gear), I
still have that trans in my shop.   The front ring and pinion was also a
Group B rally car problem as well, btw.  The 01E will "supposedly"
handle
more turbo HP ("The World According to Kluge"), but I doubt we are
talking
huge amounts for a couple reasons.  First, the front ring and pinion is
the
same size O1E vs 016.  Second, the O1E is a torsen based transmission,
and
that university special found in the audi transmissions is only good for
400hp as well (then the basket busts apart).  As the shape of the tail
housing has changed in the 01E, I don't see how you'd easily change out
the
torsen for a locker either.  Bob, you put that O1E into a smaller car,
the
shock loads will increase (as the chances of lifting wheels does as
well),
bye bye torsen.  Will it fit an Urq?  Sure it will, not sure why you'd
want
to...  FYI a v8 5spd will fit the urq as well, there's one of those
running
in TX.

I personally know very few (like short a handful) that have blown up the
016TQ transmission, whatever the rumor, I know of a LOT of 01E failures
-
including the wider first models (contrary to the highly regarded
opinions of
Kluge hisself, it may be a chassis problem, it may be that he considers
the
torsen not part of the "transmission").  I do give credence to the turbo
HP
vs torque argument presented.  Turbo cars tend to be better on
transmissions
because turbos, no matter how fast, ramps up maximum torque/hp between
gears,
whereas a LT1 for instance, has 90% of that massively tweeked I5 torque
as
soon as you crack the throttle.

So Bob P, blow up your 016TQ FIRST, then go after the transmission.  In
my 12
years of quattro experience, my gut tells me blowing up 016's is a
bragging
right, not a preemptive strike problem.  And "as" a preemptive strike
problem, I'd beef up the 016 (hardened 3rd gear, hardened R&P) ala SMS
before
I'd go after the O1E as a "solution".  IOW, celebrate/brag about the
problem
first.

HTH and my .02

Scott Justusson
QSHIPQ Performance Tuning
Chicago
Team LT1Q kibitzer
016's aplenty


In a message dated 3/5/2003 6:14:36 PM Central Standard Time,
rpastore at animalfeeds.com writes:

Hope nobody minds me taking the thread in a slightly different
direction.
Let's assume one were to embark on a project to build a really high HP
20V
urq.
I am talking beyond the 350-370 HP we see in rs2 clothing, and going
north of
400hp with huge torque with a 2.5l stroker AAN.

 I have heard that the transmission is the biggest issue, in that the
016 3rd
and 4th gears can't handle power in excess of about 350 hp.

 Would that leave an 01E as the only remaining transmission choice
capable of
handling that much power?  Does anyone have any BTDT in what it takes to
shove an O1E into a urq?

Bob



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