[s-cars] Re: wrt pushing RS2 to the edge...

Sat May 10 14:25:59 EDT 2003

I agree, I will not go past half throttle when it's
over 50 degrees ambient Farenheit with my current
setup on pump gas.

I need a front mount and WI to make this thing safe, I
heard detonation at WOT the other day and scared the
piss out of me.

Hey, doesn't WI increase cylinder pressures, which is
something I would want to stay away from, since I'm
getting close to the limit of the conrods as it is?

I know there are cars out there that have run this
setup with success, but I can't help but thing these
motors are only still around for two reasons:

Knock sensors
Motronic dialing timing back.

I datalogged last night with vag com and the car felt
slow as crap (75 degrees out, stock intercooler and
humid as a hooker's **** [censored for list
approval]).

Joe
--- Bruce Mendel <brucem105 at comcast.net> wrote:
> Exactly.....at certain heat/octane/negative
> conditions, whatever more power
> is dialed in gets dialed back out by the ECU via
> timing or boost retard due
> to negative engine conditions.
>
> Since it's almost always heat that is the culprit, a
> lot of folks go with
> bigger FMICs or water injection.
>
> B
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Calvin & Diana Craig"
> <calvinlc at earthlink.net>
> To: "Mihnea Cotet" <mik at info.fundp.ac.be>;
> <QSHIPQ at aol.com>;
> <robert at s-cars.org>; <pizzoman at yahoo.com>;
> <s-car-list at audifans.com>
> Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2003 1:01 PM
> Subject: RE: [s-cars] Re: wrt pushing RS2 to the
> edge...
>
>
> > Mihnea,
> >
> > You say more boost=more torque.  Yes, if you
> discount heat.  What we are
> > really interested in here is n in the old equation
> PV=nRT.  So you can
> > increase cubes, pressure, or decrease temp.  What
> doesn't gain you
> anything
> > is increasing pressure and temperature from a heat
> soaked IC at the same
> > time.  I am sure you meant boost = torque WHEN the
> temp. stays the same,
> > right?  I think what some people are arguing here
> is that you might be
> > peeing in the wind with the extra 2-4psi because
> the rest of the system
> > can't handle it efficiently from either a flow
> perspective or a heat
> > perspective.  I don't know.  I run a stock S4 so I
> have no experience at
> 28
> > psi boost levels with these particular cars, but I
> am 100% sure there is a
> > point where more boost does not equal more torque
> because of the
> > aforementioned circumstances.
> >
> > --Calvin
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: s-car-list-admin at audifans.com
> > [mailto:s-car-list-admin at audifans.com]On Behalf Of
> Mihnea Cotet
> > Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2003 10:43 AM
> > To: QSHIPQ at aol.com; robert at s-cars.org;
> pizzoman at yahoo.com;
> > s-car-list at audifans.com
> > Subject: Re: [s-cars] Re: wrt pushing RS2 to the
> edge...
> >
> >
> > Scott et al.,
> >
> >
> > 28 psi *does* gain over 26 or 21 in terms of
> torque IMHO/IME (I can't but
> > exist on the Experience part, especially in tuning
> myself a few RS2
> engines
> > recently).
> >
> > And, I know of several RS2s running 28 psi (i.e.
> almost 2 Bar boost or PR)
> > overboost for a massive 530-540 Nm of torque (dyno
> measured), while stock
> > RS2 torque is 420 Nm at max. 1.4 Bar. I know 28
> psi isn't efficient, but
> > for torque no one needs 100% efficiency. So what
> does your statement of 28
> > psi being almost double the factory boost levels
> mean? Stock AAN boost?
> > Maybe, okay but what's the point? What's the point
> in comparing apples
> with
> > oranges?
> >
> > So, sorry to insist, boost means torque and if
> timing is properly
> > programmed (sorry to insist on that point again),
> 28 psi will be a lot of
> > times better than 21, I've personnally BTDT many
> times.
> >
> > Then, according to several serious tuners here in
> Europe (what do you say
> > of Dupre Motorsport's racing engine management
> director during the 90's?
> > He's the guy that helped me with most of what I
> know about chip tuning),
> > stock rods (including the crappy AAN units which
> are the worst Audi ever
> > used, i.e. the thinnest) are known to break at 600
> Nm crank torque,
> meaning
> > in excess of 2.5 Bar or PR. This also means that
> running 30 psi (or 2.0
> Bar
> > or PR) won't break rods, except if the timing/fuel
> chip is done by an a$$
> > and if knock sensor function is suppressed or the
> threshold raised.
> >
> > Furthermore, maximum boost people are stating
> doesn't mean anything to me
> > in terms of HP, what boost levels are you guys
> seeing at 5500, 6000, 6500
> > and 7000 RPM? This is more relevant than maximum
> boost you see for a few
> > seconds during overboost.
> >
> > HTH and my 0.02 Euro,
> >
> > Mihnea
> >
> > At 12:27 10/05/2003 -0400, QSHIPQ at aol.com wrote:
> > >Hmmm...  I personally think running 28psi on an
> S-car is silly (I'd say
> > >stupid, but long nerdy posts about effective
> compression ratios I don't
> > >need).  IMO, you are "safer" increasing the
> Density Ratio than the
> > >Pressure Ratio.  I'd also venture to say that
> 28psi probably isn't
> gaining
> > >any performance over 26psi, which means Motronic
> is probably saving a lot
> > >of butts here.  I'd also venture to say that the
> difference between 24psi
> > >and 26 psi is barely measureable.  I'd also
> venture to say that the
> > >difference beyond 21 psi (RS2 equipped only)
> comes at a massively
> > >diminishing rate of return.
> > >
> > >I'd further venture to say that rods are known to
> pop at 30psi, which
> > >means the closer you get to it, the higher the
> danger.
> > >
> > >All anecdotal "evidence" so noted, 28psi is
> almost double the factory
> > >boost levels.  For street driving, probably not
> there long enough to
> worry
> > >about it.  The long straight and intense 30minute
> track session?  I'd be
> > >worried about it.
> > >
> > >Boost, specifically Pressure Ratio, is only part
> of the equation in
> tuning
> > >for performance gains.  Cars *can* run at maximum
> parameters, but small
> > >hiccups in any of the ancillary systems can cause
> catastrophic failures
> > >because of boost.  The good news Joe, is that you
> can respond in the
> > >"takes one to know one" concept.  Specifically,
> if it's stupid to run
> > >28psi, in reality, with no other changes, it's
> really no "smarter" to run
> > >it with race gas.
> > >
> > >HTH and my .02
> > >
> > >Scott Justusson
> > >
> > >
> > >In a message dated 5/10/2003 8:07:52 AM Central
> Daylight Time,
> > >mik at info.fundp.ac.be writes:
> > >
> > >Joe,
> > >
> > >Someone stating 28 psi without race gas on an RS2
> motor is stupid simply
> > >doesn't know what this motor/turbo is. Period.
> > >Then, you can log timing advance and IAT with
> VAG-COM, I don't remember
> > >where exactly but you can.
> > >
> > >HTH,
> > >
> > >Mihnea
> > >
> > >At 05:00 10/05/2003 -0400, Robert Myers wrote:
>
=== message truncated ===

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The preceding statement is true.
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