[s-cars] Recap of Eibach and Bilstein Info
Steve Marinello
smarinello at charter.net
Thu May 15 16:17:16 EDT 2003
Finally checked the set purchased from shox.com many moons ago (how long ago
was it, Lee?)
Guess I got the correct v.3: 1527.001 F, 1516.002 R
...which means maybe someone has been messing up since then?
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Smith" <charlie at elektro.cmhnet.org>
To: "Audi S Car List" <s-car-list at audifans.com>
Cc: "Charlie Smith" <charlie at elektro.cmhnet.org>; <Djdawson2 at aol.com>;
<bob.rossato at att.net>; <ray at s-cars.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 10:03 AM
Subject: [s-cars] Recap of Eibach and Bilstein Info
>
> This is an attempt to summmarize information about Eibach Pro springs
> and Bilstein Sport shocks for our UrS4/S6 cars.
>
> First, you can NOT go by the Eibach 1529.140 "Kit Number" on the box. You
> have to look at the actual spring part numbers that are on the springs.
>
> There are three combinations of springs. The difference is most apparent
> in the rear, but the front's are different too. All three spec's of
Eibach
> springs will lower your car a lot. Here's a side view of the S6 with the
> first spec springs on it:
> http://elektro.cmhnet.org/~audi/s6q95/img01.html
>
> There were three combination of spring part numbers in various Eibach
> spring kits that were marked 1529.40 on the outside of the box. The first
> section of this discussion covers the just the first two kit combinations.
> The third section way down at the bottom of this discussion covers the
most
> recent (third) combination of springs. The Eibach spring part numbers
> which are marked on the springs for each of the three combinations are
> as follows:
>
> 1529.40 Kit combination one: p/n 1527.001 F, 1517.002 R
> 1529.40 Kit combination two: p/n 1529.001 F, 1529.002 R
> 1529.40 Kit combination three: p/n 1527.001 F, 1516.002 R
>
> Ok, the discussion on combinations one (Euro kit) and two (USA Kit)
follows
> =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
>
> Here's some notes from Bob Rossato in November 2000 about the differences.
> The p/n's Bob is noting are those marked on the springs. The part number
> for the entire kit (on the box) was marked the same on both types. That
> number was 1529.140 because in Europe that number was for a different spec
> kit than the same number as used in North America. An other archived
email
> said that the Euro kit was for a 2wd Avant Automatic, and that Eibach said
> that they would be too soft for the heavier Quattro S-cars. My personal
> opinion is that the Euro kit is still much better than stock if that's all
> you can find.
>
> ---------------------
> Bob's notes:
>
> For those of you that have already installed the Eibach Germany 1529.140
kit
> (p/n 1527.001 F, 1517.002 R) that we originally received and may be
> contemplating whether or not you should change them for the Eibach USA
> 1529.140 kit (p/n 1529.001 F, 1529.002 R), here are some of the major
> differences.
>
> The rear spring (p/n 1529.002) from the USA kit is 45mm (1.75") shorter
than
> the 1517.002 rear spring. The wire diameter is the same. Overall
diameter
> is the same. The coil spacing is approx. the same (0.1" difference). The
> number of active coils is the same, but the number of inactive coils on
the
> USA 1529.140 is 3.5 vs. 5.25 for the German kit, resulting in the overall
> shorter spring. Also there is no rubber tubing on the inactive coils in
the
> USA kit like there is in the longer springs from the German kit.
>
> The front spring (p/n 1529.001) in the USA kit is approx.13mm (0.5")
shorter
> and has a slightly thicker wire diameter (16.6mm vs. 16mm) but is
otherwise
> the same as the 1527.001 spring.
>
> =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
>
> Now, regarding the third combination of spring part numbers that has
> recently turned up:
>
> First Dave Dawson wrote on May 13, 2003 (slightly paraphrased):
>
> A friend recently bought the infamous Eibach 1529.140 kit...
> Upon opening the box, there appears to be yet another variable in the
Eibach
> equation. My set was labeled 1527.001 (fronts) and 1517.002 (rears), as
were
> several other lister's sets that I've talked to about Eibachs. His rears
are
> labeled 1516.002. They are also missing the rubber sleeve that is
installed
> on the "inactive" coils of the spring.
>
> To figure out what's going on, I called Eibach... and after much delay,
> got on the phone with a tech person. Here's what he said:
>
> Anyone who got a set of springs labeled 1517.002 for the rears, got the
> wrong rear spring. The new number (received from shox.com this week)
> is 1516.002 for the rear spring. According to the Eibach person
EVERYTHING
> about these two different rear springs is identical (both spring rates,
> coil diameter, wire diameter) except the 1516.002 is 30mm shorter unloaded
> and unsleeved. The free length of the 1517.002 was 335mm, while the
> "correct" 1516.002 is 305mm. This explains the 1970's "jacked up" look
> that myself and others have noticed.
>
> [ Note from Charlie: What Dave heard below from this Eibach person ]
> [ is probably incorrect, because this Eibach person doesn't know about ]
> [ the previous GP confusion of combinations 1 & 2 discussed above. ]
>
> The Eibach "technical" person claims that nothing (in terms of spring
> specs) ever changed for this spring set, US or German. The only
> difference was where they were wound, some here, some in Germany.
> The confusion started in the US when they offered Pro Kit Dampers,
> on which the rear perch problem existed. For this, they offered the
> spacer. Otherwise, he claims that they are currently offering the
> ONLY spring kit they have EVER offered in any country. Part numbers
> have changed, but the specs have remained identical, according to the
> specs he was reading to me.
>
> [ again from Charlie, the Eibach guy appears to be wrong on the above. ]
>
> So on that note... If you bought a 1529.140 Pro Kit from anyone, and it
has
> 1517.002 rear springs, he said that Eibach would replace them with the
> correct springs. He said those folks should call Eibach at 909.256.8300
and
> talk to Scott Curry at extension 130.
>
> =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
>
> After Dave's email just above, Bob Rossato then wrote the following,
> which goes along with my comments above about this Eibach "technical"
> person not having the full facts.
>
> Bob Rossato's email:
>
> I was part of the GP for the 1529.140 UrS4/6 kit ~3 years ago. Eibach had
> officially discontinued the 1529.140 kit a year or so earlier but some
folks
> at Marcor in Canada and another place in CO whose name escapes me,
convinced
> Eibach to make "one last batch". The first kit we got had the 1527.001
> fronts and 1517.002 rears and folks on the list that had purchased the
> original 1529.140 kit pointed out that the spring numbers were different.
> The original kits had 1529.001 fronts and 1529.002 rears. After much
> perseverance by Peter Anderson who coordinated the GP, Eibach admitted we
> got the wrong springs and made a new batch for us. When the new set
arrived
> I had the opportunity to compare the two sets side by side and take
> measurements (both brand new out of the box). There definitely was a
> difference between the two. The 1529.001 fronts appeared to be stiffer
than
> the 1527s based on larger wire diameter and shorter free length. The
> 1529.002 rears had the same wire diameter and number of active coils as
the
> 1517.002 springs, but had ~2 less inactive coils than the 1517.002s making
> them 45mm shorter, which I guess makes them 10mm shorter than the specs
you
> listed for the latest rear spring (1516.002). Hey there's our 10mm spacer
> ;-)
>
> If Eibach is now claiming that the specs between the old 1529.001/.002 and
> today's 1527.001 & 1516.002 (1517.002?) are the same, then one way or
> another they don't have very good records.
>
> [ end of Bob's comments. ]
>
> =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
>
> And for a semi-complete summary email, I'll include what I've said earlier
> about the Bilstein Sport shocks, along with some notes from Ray Tomlinson
> on Bilstein revalving:
>
> ---------------------
> First, the part numbers for Bilstein Sport shocks for our UrS4/S6 cars:
> P36-0369 front
> B46-2066 rear
>
> Another thing worth mentioning, on Bilstein Sport shocks. The regular
> Bilstein Sport shocks now come with one snap ring groove for the snap
> ring that holds the spring seat. These same shocks used to be provided
> with four snap ring grooves so you could set your own ride heigth.
>
> If you find the right supplier, these shocks can still be ordered with
> several snap ring grooves. The body of the shocks is thick enough that
> you can machine in new grooves yourself. This is what I did on mine to
> use the original European 1529.140 kit with the 1517.002 rear springs.
>
> Also, Bob Rossato has posted this note:
> ---------------------
> I went through this last year when I got a set of Bilstein Sports for my
> Corrado. I called Bilstein here in CT and asked about the sports only
> having one groove whereas the application guide specifies that they're
> adjustable for the rears. Apparently this is the way they're coming
through
> now but he stated he could get additional grooves machined on if I wished.
> I expected there would be a charge but was pleasantly surprised when he
> offered to do it free of charge since the application guide specifies an
> adjustable perch.
>
> The service is actually done at the San Diego facility. Since I hadn't
> installed mine yet I asked him to just order another set from San Diego
with
> the additional grooves machined in and when they came in I drove down and
> swapped them. Took about 2-3 weeks to come in. The only problem was that
> he asked them to machine in 4 additional grooves but they ended doing only
> 2 additional grooves. Oh well, better than nothing.
> ---------------------
>
>
>
> The other important thing to note for installation of either spec of these
> Eibach springs, is that they will lower the car enough that you won't be
> able to correctly adjust the front camber. After some thousands of miles
> of hard cornering, you will wear off the inside 2" of your front tires.
> You don't need to ask me how I can be so certain about this :-)
>
> There is a cure for that. It requires making a modification to your top
> camber plate - the one that holds the bushing that the top of the shock
> bolts into. Igor Kessel has written a number of good articles on
suspension
> allignment, including making a .pdf file that shows the exact
modifications
> that need to be done to the top camber plate. Igor's writeups and a link
to
> download the camber plate .pdf are here:
>
> http://www.elektro.com/~audi/alignment/
>
>
> =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
> Here's Ray Tomlinson's notes on Bilstein valving:
>
> I've spent a little too much time on the phone with Bilstein lately.
> After speaking with Shayne in tech support/sales, I came across some
> interesting valving numbers.
>
> For $55 additional charge per strut, Bilstein will completely rebuilt any
> monotube strut with custom valving.
>
> Here are the stock rebound/compression settings for my struts:
>
> P36-0369 (front): 119 rebound /107 compression
> B46-2066 (rear): 125 rebound / 80 compression
>
> Shayne indicated that increasing rebound by 25% in the front, but not as
> much in the rear, will help control some of the nose-dive we experience in
> the UrS-cars.
>
> By comparison, the neu-S4 2.7t's valvings are as follows:
>
> front: 273 rebound / 90 compression
> rear: 353 rebound / 119 compression
> =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
>
>
> Hope this helps ...
>
> - Charlie
>
>
> Charlie Smith charlie at elektro.cmhnet.org 614-471-1418
> http://www.elektro.com/~charlie Columbus Ohio USA
> http://www.elektro.com/~audi photos & technical info
>
> 95 S6 Quattro - 24 PSI, RS2 6 speed, and other features
> 97 Dodge Ram - 40 PSI, 4x4 w/Cummins turbo diesel
>
>
>
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