[s-cars] Recap of Eibach and Bilstein Info

[serge]

What you describe in "1529.40 Kit combination one" is referred to at Eibach
as 1529.40E. The "E" designation is for Avants. You may call them vanilla or
cookies and cream, makes no difference to me:)  But to other Avant owners
who wish to have the Eibach kit, it may be helpful to know how to properly
reference it. According to Scott at Eibach you can still get the 1529.40E
kit through shox.com, the plain jane vanilla 1529.40 excludes Avants as an
application. I know of at least one crazy lister who is using these exact
springs w/ the Bilstein sports, and is happy w/ the results. I hope to have
these on the car by mid-late June and will post my impression once I have
one.


Serge Filanovsky

95 S6 Avant



> Earlier, serge wrote:
>>
>> Fellow Avant owners,
>> I just spoke w/ Scott Curry at Eibach, he confirmed that pro kit 1529.140E
>> which is composed of:
>>
>> 1527.001VA fronts
>> 1517.002HA rears
>>
>> is the correct kit for the Avant. I seem to recall someone saying that it
>> was for an auto non-quattro avant. But according to Scott, they fit all the
>> Avants. I asked if this kit was to be used with the Bilstein sports, and he
>> confirmed that was the case. These springs are still available, and he
>> recommended shox.com.
>
> Your contact at Eibach is giving you bad information.
>
> These spring part numbers are the "combination one" that I described
> in the earlier email:
>
>>>
>>> 1529.40 Kit combination one:    p/n 1527.001 F, 1517.002 R
>>> 1529.40 Kit combination two:    p/n 1529.001 F, 1529.002 R
>>> 1529.40 Kit combination three:  p/n 1527.001 F, 1516.002 R
>>>
>
> The 1517.002 Rear springs when used with the rear Bilstein Sport B46-2066
> shocks will have the back of your car way up in the air.  To use this
> combination of parts you will need to machine a new snap ring groove 1 cm
> closer to the bottom of the shock.
>
> The 1516.002 Rear spring is supposedly what shox.com is currently selling.
> It is shorter than the 1517.002 Rear spring so that you do not need to make
> the additional groove in the shock body.
>
> - Charlie Smith
>
>
>
>
>> This is what I wrote earlier:
>>>
>>> This is an attempt to summmarize information about Eibach Pro springs
>>> and Bilstein Sport shocks for our UrS4/S6 cars.
>>>
>>> First, you can NOT go by the Eibach 1529.140 "Kit Number" on the box.  You
>>> have to look at the actual spring part numbers that are on the springs.
>>>
>>> There are three combinations of springs.  The difference is most apparent
>>> in the rear, but the front's are different too.  All three spec's of Eibach
>>> springs will lower your car a lot.  Here's a side view of the S6 with the
>>> first spec springs on it:
>>> http://elektro.cmhnet.org/~audi/s6q95/img01.html
>>>
>>> There were three combination of spring part numbers in various Eibach
>>> spring kits that were marked 1529.40 on the outside of the box.  The first
>>> section of this discussion covers the just the first two kit combinations.
>>> The third section way down at the bottom of this discussion covers the most
>>> recent (third) combination of springs.  The Eibach spring part numbers
>>> which are marked on the springs for each of the three combinations are
>>> as follows:
>>>
>>> 1529.40 Kit combination one:    p/n 1527.001 F, 1517.002 R
>>> 1529.40 Kit combination two:    p/n 1529.001 F, 1529.002 R
>>> 1529.40 Kit combination three:  p/n 1527.001 F, 1516.002 R
>>>
>>> Ok, the discussion on combinations one (Euro kit) and two (USA Kit) follows
>>> =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
>>>
>>> Here's some notes from Bob Rossato in November 2000 about the differences.
>>> The p/n's Bob is noting are those marked on the springs.  The part number
>>> for the entire kit (on the box) was marked the same on both types.  That
>>> number was 1529.140 because in Europe that number was for a different spec
>>> kit than the same number as used in North America.  An other archived email
>>> said that the Euro kit was for a 2wd Avant Automatic, and that Eibach said
>>> that they would be too soft for the heavier Quattro S-cars.  My personal
>>> opinion is that the Euro kit is still much better than stock if that's all
>>> you can find.
>>>
>>> ---------------------
>>> Bob's notes:
>>>
>>> For those of you that have already installed the Eibach Germany 1529.140 kit
>>> (p/n 1527.001 F, 1517.002 R) that we originally received and may be
>>> contemplating whether or not you should change them for the Eibach USA
>>> 1529.140 kit (p/n 1529.001 F, 1529.002 R), here are some of the major
>>> differences.
>>>
>>> The rear spring (p/n 1529.002) from the USA kit is 45mm (1.75") shorter than
>>> the 1517.002 rear spring.  The wire diameter is the same.  Overall diameter
>>> is the same.  The coil spacing is approx. the same (0.1" difference).  The
>>> number of active coils is the same, but the number of inactive coils on the
>>> USA 1529.140 is 3.5 vs. 5.25 for the German kit, resulting in the overall
>>> shorter spring.  Also there is no rubber tubing on the inactive coils in the
>>> USA kit like there is in the longer springs from the German kit.
>>>
>>> The front spring (p/n 1529.001) in the USA kit is approx.13mm (0.5") shorter
>>> and has a slightly thicker wire diameter (16.6mm vs. 16mm) but is otherwise
>>> the same as the 1527.001 spring.
>>>
>>> =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
>>>
>>> Now, regarding the third combination of spring part numbers that has
>>> recently turned up:
>>>
>>> First Dave Dawson wrote on May 13, 2003 (slightly paraphrased):
>>>
>>> A friend recently bought the infamous Eibach 1529.140 kit...
>>> Upon opening the box, there appears to be yet another variable in the Eibach
>>> equation.  My set was labeled 1527.001 (fronts) and 1517.002 (rears), as
>>> were
>>> several other lister's sets that I've talked to about Eibachs.  His rears
>>> are
>>> labeled 1516.002.  They are also missing the rubber sleeve that is installed
>>> on the "inactive" coils of the spring.
>>>
>>> To figure out what's going on, I called Eibach... and after much delay,
>>> got on the phone with a tech person.  Here's what he said:
>>>
>>> Anyone who got a set of springs labeled 1517.002 for the rears, got the
>>> wrong rear spring.  The new number (received from shox.com this week)
>>> is 1516.002 for the rear spring.  According to the Eibach person EVERYTHING
>>> about these two different rear springs is identical (both spring rates,
>>> coil diameter, wire diameter) except the 1516.002 is 30mm shorter unloaded
>>> and unsleeved.  The free length of the 1517.002 was 335mm, while the
>>> "correct" 1516.002 is 305mm.  This explains the 1970's "jacked up" look
>>> that myself and others have noticed.
>>>
>>> [ Note from Charlie:  What Dave heard below from this Eibach person    ]
>>> [ is probably incorrect, because this Eibach person doesn't know about ]
>>> [ the previous GP confusion of combinations 1 & 2 discussed above.     ]
>>>
>>> The Eibach "technical" person claims that nothing (in terms of spring
>>> specs) ever changed for this spring set, US or German.  The only
>>> difference was where they were wound, some here, some in Germany.
>>> The confusion started in the US when they offered Pro Kit Dampers,
>>> on which the rear perch problem existed.  For this, they offered the
>>> spacer.  Otherwise, he claims that they are currently offering the
>>> ONLY spring kit they have EVER offered in any country.  Part numbers
>>> have changed, but the specs have remained identical, according to the
>>> specs he was reading to me.
>>>
>>> [ again from Charlie, the Eibach guy appears to be wrong on the above.  ]
>>>
>>> So on that note... If you bought a 1529.140 Pro Kit from anyone, and it has
>>> 1517.002 rear springs, he said that Eibach would replace them with the
>>> correct springs.  He said those folks should call Eibach at 909.256.8300 and
>>> talk to Scott Curry at extension 130.
>>>
>>> =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
>>>
>>> After Dave's email just above, Bob Rossato then wrote the following,
>>> which goes along with my comments above about this Eibach "technical"
>>> person not having the full facts.
>>>
>>> Bob Rossato's email:
>>>
>>> I was part of the GP for the 1529.140 UrS4/6 kit ~3 years ago.  Eibach had
>>> officially discontinued the 1529.140 kit a year or so earlier but some folks
>>> at Marcor in Canada and another place in CO whose name escapes me, convinced
>>> Eibach to make "one last batch".  The first kit we got had the 1527.001
>>> fronts and 1517.002 rears and folks on the list that had purchased the
>>> original 1529.140 kit pointed out that the spring numbers were different.
>>> The original kits had 1529.001 fronts and 1529.002 rears.  After much
>>> perseverance by Peter Anderson who coordinated the GP, Eibach admitted we
>>> got the wrong springs and made a new batch for us.  When the new set arrived
>>> I had the opportunity to compare the two sets side by side and take
>>> measurements (both brand new out of the box).  There definitely was a
>>> difference between the two.  The 1529.001 fronts appeared to be stiffer than
>>> the 1527s based on larger wire diameter and shorter free length.  The
>>> 1529.002 rears had the same wire diameter and number of active coils as the
>>> 1517.002 springs, but had ~2 less inactive coils than the 1517.002s making
>>> them 45mm shorter, which I guess makes them 10mm shorter than the specs you
>>> listed for the latest rear spring (1516.002).  Hey there's our 10mm spacer
>>> ;-)
>>>
>>> If Eibach is now claiming that the specs between the old 1529.001/.002 and
>>> today's 1527.001 & 1516.002 (1517.002?) are the same, then one way or
>>> another they don't have very good records.
>>>
>>> [  end of Bob's comments.  ]
>>>
>>> =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
>>>
>>> And for a semi-complete summary email, I'll include what I've said earlier
>>> about the Bilstein Sport shocks, along with some notes from Ray Tomlinson
>>> on Bilstein revalving:
>>>
>>> ---------------------
>>> First, the part numbers for Bilstein Sport shocks for our UrS4/S6 cars:
>>> P36-0369 front
>>> B46-2066 rear
>>>
>>> Another thing worth mentioning, on Bilstein Sport shocks.  The regular
>>> Bilstein Sport shocks now come with one snap ring groove for the snap
>>> ring that holds the spring seat.  These same shocks used to be provided
>>> with four snap ring grooves so you could set your own ride heigth.
>>>
>>> If you find the right supplier, these shocks can still be ordered with
>>> several snap ring grooves.  The body of the shocks is thick enough that
>>> you can machine in new grooves yourself.  This is what I did on mine to
>>> use the original European 1529.140 kit with the 1517.002 rear springs.
>>>
>>> Also, Bob Rossato has posted this note:
>>> ---------------------
>>> I went through this last year when I got a set of Bilstein Sports for my
>>> Corrado.  I called Bilstein here in CT and asked about the sports only
>>> having one groove whereas the application guide specifies that they're
>>> adjustable for the rears.  Apparently this is the way they're coming through
>>> now but he stated he could get additional grooves machined on if I wished.
>>> I expected there would be a charge but was pleasantly surprised when he
>>> offered to do it free of charge since the application guide specifies an
>>> adjustable perch.
>>>
>>> The service is actually done at the San Diego facility.  Since I hadn't
>>> installed mine yet I asked him to just order another set from San Diego with
>>> the additional grooves machined in and when they came in I drove down and
>>> swapped them.  Took about 2-3 weeks to come in.  The only problem was that
>>> he asked them to machine in 4 additional grooves but they ended doing only
>>> 2 additional grooves.  Oh well, better than nothing.
>>> ---------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The other important thing to note for installation of either spec of these
>>> Eibach springs, is that they will lower the car enough that you won't be
>>> able to correctly adjust the front camber.  After some thousands of miles
>>> of hard cornering, you will wear off the inside 2" of your front tires.
>>> You don't need to ask me how I can be so certain about this  :-)
>>>
>>> There is a cure for that.  It requires making a modification to your top
>>> camber plate - the one that holds the bushing that the top of the shock
>>> bolts into.  Igor Kessel has written a number of good articles on suspension
>>> allignment, including making a .pdf file that shows the exact modifications
>>> that need to be done to the top camber plate.  Igor's writeups and a link to
>>> download the camber plate .pdf are here:
>>>
>>> http://www.elektro.com/~audi/alignment/
>>>
>>>
>>> =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
>>> Here's Ray Tomlinson's notes on Bilstein valving:
>>>
>>> I've spent a little too much time on the phone with Bilstein lately.
>>> After speaking with Shayne in tech support/sales, I came across some
>>> interesting valving numbers.
>>>
>>> For $55 additional charge per strut, Bilstein will completely rebuilt any
>>> monotube strut with custom valving.
>>>
>>> Here are the stock rebound/compression settings for my struts:
>>>
>>> P36-0369 (front):  119 rebound /107 compression
>>> B46-2066 (rear):   125 rebound / 80 compression
>>>
>>> Shayne indicated that increasing rebound by 25% in the front, but not as
>>> much in the rear, will help control some of the nose-dive we experience in
>>> the UrS-cars.
>>>
>>> By comparison, the neu-S4 2.7t's valvings are as follows:
>>>
>>> front:  273 rebound / 90 compression
>>> rear:   353 rebound / 119 compression
>>> =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
>>>
>>>
>>> Hope this helps ...
>>>
>>> - Charlie
>>>
>>>
>>> Charlie Smith   charlie at elektro.cmhnet.org  614-471-1418
>>> http://www.elektro.com/~charlie      Columbus Ohio   USA
>>> http://www.elektro.com/~audi     photos & technical info
>>>
>>> 95 S6 Quattro  -  24 PSI, RS2 6 speed, and other features
>>> 97 Dodge Ram   -  40 PSI, 4x4 w/Cummins turbo diesel
>>>
>