[s-cars] Re: Transfer '92 suspension - joys &/or sorrows of riding a bigger bar

[Rob Pecsar]

Thanks go out Mike and Hap, for the sage advice. I "simply" transferred the '92
rear cross member, sway bar, and struts to my new '95...a Memorial day well
spent. All was accomplished skillfully, except for beating free an exhaust
system...end result is I'm back to the tight feel of my recently departed '92.
Though not Hapersized, its a step in the right direction.

Now on to move the RS2 EM, MTM 1+ ECU, 993 brakes, silicon hoses...how did this
addiction ever get started???

Rob Pecsar
'95 work in progress
'92 being demod'ed

mlp qwest wrote:

> Adding the stock 17mm bar was, in my opinion "nice" ~ i.e. not an earth
> shattering change, but it does make the car feel slightly "crisper" when
> turning in.  The again, the stock bar only adds @ 33 (Haps figure) to @ 37
> lbs (my somewhat suspect recollection of the test done by the suspension
> machinist who fabricated the RSB adapters that I had made up modeled off a
> 92 rear subframe that Frank Amoroso kindly provided when he was thinking of
> doing a RSB on his car) of roll stiffness to an other wise rather heavy
> vehicle.
>
> FWIW, I'm not sure what the deciding point was in Frank's case, he had all
> the components to do a 1992 rear (& I thin front) suspension swap in to his
> car, but in the end, I think he just went with doing the adapter kit ~ a
> relatively easy 40 min, to maybe an hour if you are familiar with what you
> are doing and particularly easy if you have access to a car lift.
>
> In my case, adding the 17mm bar was done to a suspension that already had an
> Eibach/Bilstein set up on it, so I can't comment on what it might be like
> with a "stock" (you pick you year for OEM) springs.  My guess would be,
> "About the same thing, just different." :-)
>
> Hap's 26mm rear bar adjustable kit OTOH produces, at up to something like +4
> times (125, 140, or 155 / you pick, 33 or 37 = +3.4 to +4.8) the roll
> resistance of the stock bar.  As one might suspect, this provides a much
> more dramatic change.  Again, only in my opinion, this is a changed that,
> subject to certain worries about forces now applied to the rear subframe &
> associated components by the dramatically stiffer bar, I like.
>
> but then I don't seem to get to drive the car that the big RSB set up is on
> all that often  :-(.  BTW, did I say I like the feel of the stiffer bar with
> the Eibach and Bilsteins A LOT.  Of course, being somewhat more wimpy than
> Hap's car, I don't run the RSB set on the stiffest setting like I think Hap
> does.  In my case, I think the bar has been set to the lightest (@ 125lbs)
> hole on the leverage arm.
>
> As far as the bar "alone" vs. the Eibach/Bilstein on improving cornering, I
> don't know how to answer that with a yes/no.  Sometime back, there were
> several "definitive" posts on the subject by Scott Justusson & Mance, to
> pick two who I thought were in diametrically opposite corners with the
> "clearest" explanations of their pro vs. cons on the stiffer RSB.  At the
> risk of misinterpreting their positions, in a nutshell I think Scott's
> position was that at the ultimate limits, a RSB (& the stiffer I take it the
> worse the consequences would be) would cause your inside wheel to lift off
> the ground and dramatically upset your, je ne sais quoi, cornering flare.
> Mance, on the other hand, who I believe tracked his car hard, and often,
> felt the addition of the STOCK 17mm bar (this was before Hap went out and
> had any Hapersized units bent up) was nothing but +'s.  As I recall Mance
> provided a fairly detailed blow by blow description of what he felt the
> stock bar did for him in his semi regular weekly fox & hare chases around
> our local 2nd Creek road course Racetrack after Larry in a "modified" UrQ.
> Somewhere around here I may have saved both Mances'& Scott posts on the
> merits/demerits of the RSB.  If I find them I'll forward copies to you.
>
> Last, I suspect there may be a few more of the hapersized RSB kits coming on
> line soon.  You, or actually the list may be blessed with a rush of fresh
> virgin experiences and newbie advice vis-a-vis the joys or sorrows of riding
> with the bigger bar.
>
> HTH
> Mike
>
> ~-----Original Message-----
> ~From: Rob Pecsar [mailto:rpecsar at pacbell.net]
> ~
> ~Thanks, Mike.
> ~
> ~This is a sobering job to simply exchange the rear subframe
> ~assemblies! I would
> ~hope that I could leave most every on the subframe and move it
> ~over, even if
> ~heavy. I can't envision if I could pull the drive shafts out
> ~without having to
> ~disconnect the bearing housings from the lower suspension pieces...
> ~
> ~I'm wondering if just going to the Eibach/Bilstein setup improves
> ~the cornering
> ~to make the sway bar really not as important. Any BTDT?
> ~
> ~I appreciate your insight,
> ~
> ~Rob
> ~
> ~mlp qwest wrote:
> ~
> ~> Rob, for the rear you need to remove the entire rear subframe, and both
> ~> lower right and left side control arms/mit rear wheel hubs and
> ~bearings etc.
> ~> off the 92 to transplant to the 95, along with their associated
> ~parts, the
> ~> pair of heim links, the RSB itself, the bushings and clips, the
> ~heim link to
> ~> control arm brackets and, finally, I think the abs shields.
> ~>
> ~> The advantage to this procedure is, well from my examination of
> ~the process
> ~> (a) it provides you with the OEM cast mounting points for the rear
> ~> stabilizer bar, and (b) the extra two threaded bolt holes in the rear
> ~> control arms which the hiem link brackets to bolt to, at least it mostly
> ~> looked to me, to prevent the brackets from twisting around the main bolt
> ~> which connects the rear shock to the lower control arm.  The
> ~> disadvantage(s), well.... ya gotta remove & replace the whole rear
> ~> suspension assembly.
> ~>
> ~> OTOH, even as "used" parts, you have some very expensive bits and pieces
> ~> there.  You don't even want to ask what Audi would charge you
> ~for the parts
> ~> new ~@ $900+ if memory serves me for a 92/Avant mit RSB mounting
> ~ears for a
> ~> rear subframe alone.
> ~>
> ~> Mike
> ~>
> ~> ~-----Original Message-----
> ~> ~On Behalf Of Rob Pecsar
> ~> ~
> ~> ~Has anyone out there BTDT with trying to transfer the rear sway
> ~> ~bar from a '92
> ~> ~to a '95?
> ~> ~
> ~> ~I have a wrecked '92 and a new '95(the one in Autoweek last
> ~> ~month), and upon
> ~> ~inspection it looks as though, to do it right, I would have to exchange
> ~> ~virtually everthing attached to the rear subframe!
> ~> ~
> ~> ~Same question for the front sway bar, although I think this should
> ~> ~be a simple
> ~> ~exchange.
> ~> ~
> ~> ~Help me, Hap, help me!
> ~> ~
> ~> ~Thanks in advance,
> ~> ~
> ~> ~Rob
> ~> ~
> ~> ~
> ~> ~
> ~> ~
> ~> ~
> ~> ~
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