No subject

probably suspect at best, but on a "BTDT" basis I do feel comfortable saying
that 28 psi @ 350F+ isn't the same as 28 psi at 225F +/- a degree or two.  I
further suspect, but again admit that I also don't really know, 28 psi at
350F+ wouldn't be quite the same, or necessarily better than 26 or 25 psi,
or maybe even 24 psi at 225F or less.

I think a KKK RS2 K26 pushing 28 psi at anything over, oh say 5,000 rpm or
so is going to be more likely to be in the former, i.e. 350F + camp, than
the latter.

Before going off on maximum psi figures, I wish someone had the
instrumentation at hand to correlate those with an actual charge air intake
temperature and power perceived", .... like, as I understand, the ECUs are
already measuring & doing and report on via "the VAG display group 03, Field
4 (Bentley Table J 01-76) off the air temp sensor located, I think, in the
intake manifold after the intake charge passes the throttle plate.  That
particular sensor is there, and in that specific place for a reason, right?

mlp

~-----Original Message-----
~From: On Behalf Of Mihnea Cotet
~Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2003 10:43 AM
~To: QSHIPQ at aol.com; robert at s-cars.org; pizzoman at yahoo.com;
~s-car-list at audifans.com
~Subject: Re: [s-cars] Re: wrt pushing RS2 to the edge...
~
~
~Scott et al.,
~
~
~28 psi *does* gain over 26 or 21 ....

snip

~RS2 torque is 420 Nm at max. 1.4 Bar. I know 28 psi isn't efficient, but
~for torque no one needs 100% efficiency. So what does your statement of 28
~psi being almost double the factory boost levels mean? Stock AAN boost?
~Maybe, okay but what's the point? What's the point in comparing apples with
~oranges?
~
~So, sorry to insist, boost means torque and if timing is properly
~programmed (sorry to insist on that point again), 28 psi will be a lot of
~times better than 21, I've personnally BTDT many times.
~
~Then, according to several serious tuners here in Europe (what do you say
~of Dupre Motorsport's racing engine management director during the 90's?
~He's the guy that helped me with most of what I know about chip tuning),
~stock rods (including the crappy AAN units which are the worst Audi ever
~used, i.e. the thinnest) are known to break at 600 Nm crank torque, meaning
~in excess of 2.5 Bar or PR. This also means that running 30 psi (or 2.0 Bar
~or PR) won't break rods, except if the timing/fuel chip is done by an a$$
~and if knock sensor function is suppressed or the threshold raised.
~
~Furthermore, maximum boost people are stating doesn't mean anything to me
~in terms of HP, what boost levels are you guys seeing at 5500, 6000, 6500
~and 7000 RPM? This is more relevant than maximum boost you see for a few
~seconds during overboost.
~
~HTH and my 0.02 Euro,
~
~Mihnea
~
~At 12:27 10/05/2003 -0400, QSHIPQ at aol.com wrote:
~>Hmmm...  I personally think running 28psi on an S-car is silly (I'd say
~>stupid, but long nerdy posts about effective compression ratios I don't
~>need).  IMO, you are "safer" increasing the Density Ratio than the
~>Pressure Ratio.  I'd also venture to say that 28psi probably isn't gaining
~>any performance over 26psi, which means Motronic is probably saving a lot
~>of butts here.  I'd also venture to say that the difference between 24psi
~>and 26 psi is barely measureable.  I'd also venture to say that the
~>difference beyond 21 psi (RS2 equipped only) comes at a massively
~>diminishing rate of return.
~>
~>I'd further venture to say that rods are known to pop at 30psi, which
~>means the closer you get to it, the higher the danger.
~>
~>All anecdotal "evidence" so noted, 28psi is almost double the factory
~>boost levels.  For street driving, probably not there long enough to worry
~>about it.  The long straight and intense 30minute track session?  I'd be
~>worried about it.
~>
~>Boost, specifically Pressure Ratio, is only part of the equation in tuning
~>for performance gains.  Cars *can* run at maximum parameters, but small
~>hiccups in any of the ancillary systems can cause catastrophic failures
~>because of boost.  The good news Joe, is that you can respond in the
~>"takes one to know one" concept.  Specifically, if it's stupid to run
~>28psi, in reality, with no other changes, it's really no "smarter" to run
~>it with race gas.
~>
~>HTH and my .02
~>
~>Scott Justusson
~>
~>
~>In a message dated 5/10/2003 8:07:52 AM Central Daylight Time,
~>mik at info.fundp.ac.be writes:
~>
~>Joe,
~>
~>Someone stating 28 psi without race gas on an RS2 motor is stupid simply
~>doesn't know what this motor/turbo is. Period.
~>Then, you can log timing advance and IAT with VAG-COM, I don't remember
~>where exactly but you can.
~>
~>HTH,
~>
~>Mihnea
~>
~>At 05:00 10/05/2003 -0400, Robert Myers wrote:
~> >--
~> >[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
~> >At 08:16 PM 5/9/2003 -0700, Joseph Pizzimenti wrote:
~> >
~> >>Well, this was sparked by a rather vocal argument I
~> >>had with someone about water injection recently.  I
~> >>was asking his advice and he has experience with B5
~> >>S4's and 3000GT VR-4's, etc...he basically said I was
~> >>stupid to run 28psi without race gas.
~> >>
~> >>Is there any way I can datalog ignition timing or
~> >>intake air temperature with VAG-COM?
~> >>
~> >>Joe
~> >
~> >
~> >I dunno, Joe, but I betcha you could get an answer on the VAG-COM list.
~> >
~> >Mailing-List: list VAG-COM at yahoogroups.com; contact
~> >VAG-COM-owner at yahoogroups.com
~> >
~> >
~> >
~> >
~> >____
~> >
~> >I've been wondering...  Who would Jesus bomb?
~> >
~> >Bob
~> >*****
~> >  Robert L. Myers  304-574-2372
~> >  Rt. 4, Box 57,  Fayetteville, WV 25840 USA  WV tag Q SHIP
~> >  '95 urS6 Cashmere Grey - der Wunderwagen   ICQ 22170244
~> >  http://www.cob-net.org/church/pvcob.htm
~> >*****
~> >--
~>
~
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