[s-cars] Re: Descrete miss piggy is not

[QSHIPQ at aol.com]

First, James, anyone that's been on track in *any* context with me in
25years, knows me as a good sport and competitive driver.  What Elijah didn't share,
was after the run group, I actively sought out and engaged Bill in a most
amiable conversation, including the on track lead/follow.  And is my way, some
pointers on specific lines.  I'm no expert, only well versed and experienced in
how quattros dance, specifically, how they *don't*.

Second, everyone should know how the laws of physics works in terms of weight
and tracks.  Especially street cars on track.  The heavier you are, the
harder you fall.  I've seen plenty of S cars fall.  And when they do = hard.  My
objection isn't at all the S car on the track, it's not the wheels, it's usually
the one behind the wheels.

I'm not at all singling out S car dudes.  I've instructed at bmw, lotus club
(now those dudes are crazy), viper and Porsche...  What I've tried to opin on
here, is the recent and increased propensity for the clubs to put high HP/Big
brake cars on a track without proper skills, and dunking the clock.  8 years
ago, I had one of the very first RS2 turbos to come into the country (hey, Ned
started it:).   To put it on a 5ktq (as I did) with a chip and an exhaust
resulted in 20 guys staring  at the car....  And Ned was god with his 86 5ktq with
a 20vt motor conversion....

Flash forward 8 years, 425hp out of an A4, 6 piston brakes, coil over/heim
jointed suspensions, full race car regalia.  What's missing?  Stuck, Haywood,
Biela, Rohrl, Buffum....  In a word:  Skill.  This is already at a crisis level
IMO.  All it's gonna take is one guy to ball up Miss Piggy, and the clock game
ends.  In many cases, speed limits are already imposed at club events.  ACNA
has taken the race tires from the novices.  Tip of the iceburg.  And
unfortunately, all clubs suffer from a really high student to qualified instructor
ratio.  And those that are in high demand (not a brag, just an observation), are
getting a bit less tolerant of the risks involved in the quest and need for
speed.  BTDT.

Scott Justusson


In a message dated 10/22/2003 10:39:10 AM Central Daylight Time,
jbufkin at austin.rr.com writes:
Lets not confuse the issue of good driving with whether or not it is
reasonable to track an S4.

Because either a dedicated track car (low or high power) needs comparable
driving, just as a high powered street car.   To make a blanket comment
insinuating that everyone who upgrades their S4's motor is compensating for
bad driving is a little out there if you ask me.

Lap time doctoring isn't cool when one speaks of hauling in a 100hp track
car with a 400 hp street car.

That said,
Kudos to any urS4 owner who runs and respects the power of the line, works
on their skills and still wants the HP at the same time.  Nothing wrong
with having both, even in a urS4.

By benefit of the doubt, most people hit the track in their UrS4 the first
time out with just a chip.  Thats maybe what 275 hp at the crank on a
4000lb car?   So if they're not learning the line as much as a  2000 lb car
then they'd be hurting big time.  IMO, that weight and marginal power means
they would have to be doing all possible in the corners to keep
momentum.     Next come suspension upgrades to improve cornering speeds and
finally engine upgrades for more straight line speed.    If its possible to
get 400hp from a 2000lb car, then everyone will go that route.  But as long
as the 2000lb cars have 110 hp engines, and they turn comparable lap times
with a 4000lb car, we won't see that migration.    UrS4s with mods can keep
up with alot of vehicles on the track.  How and why they do so its open to
debate on whether that is appropriate track behavior or the right approach
to driving..   I just don't recall hearing about any urS4s that spin wildly
off the track into walls indicating they were over-driven, and if they were
so prone as to take the incorrect line in corners and compensate with
HP.  The likelihood of an incident goes up dramatically at the end of the
next straight.   I'm thinking Vipers and Corvettes, etc.

Now it seems like I have gotten myself into a spat between two people
talking about one particular incident on a track far away from me.

Respectfully,
James Bufkin
Austin TX