[s-cars] Big Reds Question?

Wed Jan 28 13:21:33 EST 2004

I have just rechecked the FA and I was wrong. 323x32 it was. This means I am
really losing it. I just has that open a few day ago.

Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: Mihnea Cotet [mailto:mik at info.fundp.ac.be]
Sent: den 28 januari 2004 18:53
To: Richard Tanimura; Linus Toy; 'Scott Munger'; 'Angelo Alexopoulos';
s-car-list at audifans.com
Subject: RE: [s-cars] Big Reds Question?

The RS2 has only had 2 front brakes sizes:

304x32 for the small reds
322x32 for the big reds.

nothing else, and actually there's been no RS2 fitted from the factory with
the big reds, the option was only added around 1996 for customers
complaining about poor braking of the 304x32 system.

HTH,

Mihnea

At 18:48 28/01/2004 +0100, Richard Tanimura wrote:
>Linus,
>
>Yes I know the first RS2 was a 304x32. I just thought that bringing it up
>would add to the background noise. But the second RS2 was 314x32 not
323x32.
>It says so in the FA under the RS2. I happened to have looked this up the
>other day. The both went with the Little Red = S4 caliper.
>
>I know the RS2 uses a P-hub. I wrote that explicitly I believe.
>
>The pads for the 993 and 993TT are different because the calipers are
>actually different. The 993 is a little Red. The 993TT is a Big Red.
>
>Yup 314x30 is early A8. It has almost the same offset as the 314x32 IIRC
>which is why people can run them with the RS2 bracket. I am planning to use
>the S8 323x30 and custom brackets. Sometimes I think it would be simpler to
>just exchange my front struts for RS2 struts and just buy P-rotors.
>
>Rich
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Linus Toy [mailto:linust at mindspring.com]
>Sent: den 28 januari 2004 17:48
>To: 'Richard Tanimura'; 'Scott Munger'; 'Angelo Alexopoulos';
>s-car-list at audifans.com
>Subject: RE: [s-cars] Big Reds Question?
>
>
>By "which bracket, which caliper" I was referring to the different possible
>kits on the market--i.e. ECS, Movit, 2Bennett, etc.  While some use an Audi
>OEM
>rotor (whether for a US-spec or Euro-spec car) others use the 993tt rotor
on
>a
>custom hat.  It is this latter config that allows for minor variations in
>the
>placement of the rotor/caliper relative to the hub surface.  Also, some
kits
>use the 993tt caliper, others use the 996tt (Monobloc) caliper.
>
>FWIW, the original RS2 rotor was 304x32, under a "small" red caliper as you
>refer to it.  The "upgraded" RS2 rotor was 322x32 of the 993tt, under the
>Big
>Red caliper of the 993tt.  Both sizes are stock Porsche rotors--remember,
>the
>RS2 used a Porsche spec hub and bolt circle, 5x130, instead of the normal
>Audi
>5x112.
>
>The 5mm spacer I'm referring to is not to space out the caliper from the
>bracket, but to space out the wheel from the rotor/hub surface.  Although
>both
>calipers bolt to the same caliper and use essentially the same size pad
>(there
>are differences), the BR 993tt caliper sits a bit taller than the smaller
>993
>caliper.
>
>And yes, the centerline of the BR caliper is a bit off when used with the
>A8L
>rotor--the A8L rotor is only 30mm vs. the 993tt rotor at 32mm.  You can
>ignore
>it like I did (beware of fully worn pads) or machine the bracket a bit to
>perfectly center it..
>
>FWIW2, the 314x30 fitment from some kits is a Euro-spec Audi rotor.
>
>
>   _____
>Linus Toy
>Mercer Island, WA
>linust at mindspring.com
>   _____
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Richard Tanimura [mailto:richard at tanimuras.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 10:31 PM
> > To: Linus Toy; 'Scott Munger'; 'Angelo Alexopoulos';
> > s-car-list at audifans.com
> > Subject: RE: [s-cars] Big Reds Question?
> >
> >
> > Angelo,
> >
> > I think Linus is right on about the wheels. I think it is a
> > little confusing when he writes "This depends on .... which
> > bracket, which caliper...".
> >
> > I think what he means is that some people use the term "Big
> > Red" loosely. Porsche makes a number of calipers in different
> > sizes which are large and painted red. To me, a "Big Red"
> > denotes a specific size. This size was used on different
> > model cars like the 928GTS, 965 and 993TT. Some have
> > different cylinder sizes. But outer dimensions of the caliper
> > itself and the pads are the same size.
> >
> > The bracket's job is to position the caliper correctly in
> > relation to the rotor. For any given size caliper and rotor,
> > the critical dimensions of the bracket are fixed. So a
> > correctly designed bracket made to fit the "Big Red" to an
> > A8L (323mmx30) should always fit wheels.
> >
> > The "factory" solution is actually just a bracket (Audi PN
> > 8A0 615 125 A). It was designed to fit the RS2,928 S4, 944
> > TurboS, 968 M030 (Little Red) caliper to a Porsche hub
> > carrying a 314x32 Porsche rotor. The "factory" never intended
> > it to adapt the "Big Red" to an Audi hub carrying a 323x30
> > Audi rotor. I think that's why you need the 5 mm spacers (the
> > rotor diameter is 9 mm larger). I think the centerline of the
> > rotor is also slightly displaced relative to the caliper, but
> > when you think of all the factors that are different, it is
> > amazing the thing works at all.
> >
> > So if you want perfect centering and no spacers, you need a
> > custom bracket made for a specific caliper-rotor combination.
> > ECS, Movit, BIRA and others have developed such brackets.
> >
> > Rich
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com
> > [mailto:s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com]On > Behalf Of Linus
> > Toy
> > Sent: den 28 januari 2004 01:40
> > To: 'Scott Munger'; 'Angelo Alexopoulos'; s-car-list at audifans.com
> > Subject: RE: [s-cars] Big Reds Question?
> >
> >
> > This depends on who's Big Red setup you use...which bracket,
> > which caliper, etc. If you use the "factory" solution (RS2
> > bracket, 993tt caliper, A8L rotor) you will need to use a 5mm
> > spacer with the forged urS 5-spoke (16x8) wheel.  The
> > interference is in the "shoulder" of the wheel, just past
> > where the spokes meet the rim.  Interestingly, the 16" Avus
> > wheel (16x7.5) will clear without a spacer.
> >
> >
> >   _____
> > Linus Toy
> > Mercer Island, WA
> > linust at mindspring.com
> >   _____
> >
> >
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