[s-cars] Re: S-CAR-List Digest, Vol 7, Issue 98 - 17" tire size ideas

[Larry C Leung]

Such the price for speed.....

Just think in F1 (that's this weekend, BTW, Monaco), they
don't even get (usually) a 3rd of a track day on a set of
rubber....

LL - NY

On Thu, 20 May 2004 16:42:49 -0700 "Trevor Frank" <tfrank at symyx.com>
writes:
> 
> Agreed, damn I was hoping that there was one out there that lasted
> longer than the one's that my buddies have tried.  I have heard like 
> 1-2
> for hoosiers, and maybe 5 if you are lucky for pilot sport cups.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Larry C Leung [mailto:l.leung at juno.com]

> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 3:58 PM
> To: Trevor Frank
> Cc: s-car-list at audifans.com; mlped at qwest.net
> Subject: Re: S-CAR-List Digest, Vol 7, Issue 98 - 17" tire size 
> ideas
> 
> On an S-car, no, on a 2200 lb GTi/Miata/MiniCooper (not S), maybe 5. 
> By
> the
> end of the 5 events, they'll be slow though. If auto-X, at the 
> regional
> level, a set
> of R-rubber could last a whole season. If you go up a level though,
> you'll need
> fresh rubber. Generally, the heavier and/or more powerful (net, 
> mind
> you)
> the
> car, the shorter the tire life.

> 
> LL - NY
> 
> 
> On Thu, 20 May 2004 15:51:39 -0700 "Trevor Frank" 
> <tfrank at symyx.com>
> writes:
> >

> > I don't know of an r series tire that will last 10X track events 
> on

> > our
> > cars, but if you do let me know.
> >

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Larry C Leung [mailto:l.leung at juno.com]
> 
> > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 3:32 PM
> > To: s-car-list at audifans.com
> > Cc: Trevor Frank; mlped at qwest.net
> > Subject: Re: S-CAR-List Digest, Vol 7, Issue 98 - 17" tire size

> > ideas
> >

> >

> > Well, some of these are true track rubber, some of these are more
> > of a hyperactive street tire. I usually support separate

> > track/street
> 
> > tires, because, in the long run, it actually costs less to run 
> that

> > way.
> >

> > Since 17" street tires aren't really inexpensive, you'll really 
> want

> > to
> > get the 30K or so miles out of 'em they're generally capable of.

> > Track
> > tires cost about the same, but with shaving and heat cycling 
> (VERY
> 
> > important for track tire life for a heavy car such as the UrS or

> > even,
> > perhaps a pony car ;-) they'll last much longer than full tread

> > street
> > tires doing the same job. The difference lies in the performance 
> of
> > the track tires and near track (street) tires although I don't 
> have

> > any
> > practical
> > experience on the wear life of the near track tires. Note, some 
> of

> > these
> > tires will live MUCH longer if the car has a TON (i.e. 1.5 
> degrees

> > or
> > more!) negative camber, and they'll react better too. General

> > rule,
> 
> > square shoulder tires will NEED a lot of negative camber, but 
> will
> > likely grip/turn in better. This is my take, although I haven't 
> run

> > on
> > a number of these tires since the demise of my ex-Solo2 GTi....
> >

> > IMHO....(my $0.02)
> >

> >

> > > Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:43:20 -0600
> > > From: "mlp5" <mlped at qwest.net>
> > > Subject: RE: [s-cars] 17" tire size ideas
> > > To: "'Trevor Frank'" <tfrank at symyx.com>,        "'marc weiner'"
> > >         <marcweiner at comcast.net>, s-car-list at audifans.com
> > > Message-ID: <000001c43e9a$537d9000$0300a8c0 at mpd530>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain;        charset="us-ascii"
> > >
> 
> > > I think the better answer is probably to set up a designated 
> set

> > of
> 
> > > wheels
> > > with track tires.  After doing this two weekends in a row, I 
> can

> > see
> 
> > > that
> > > it's a little unreasonable to expect that the same tires you

> > expect
> 
> > > to take
> > > you home, reliably, ought to be subjected to the kind of abuse 
> a

> > UrS
> 
> > > car,
> > > especially if equipped with a good set brakes, can potentially

> > dish
> 
> > > out over
> > > the course of a day.

> 
> > >
> 
> > > So, who's got the pro's and cons for either:
> > >
> 
> > >  - Kuhmo VictorRacerV700  -   Reasonable for a car without a 
> true
> > track
> > alignment. A true
> >                                                         Race 
> tire,

> > but
> > old design. Very forgiving. Not availible in
> >                                                         all 
> sizes.
> >

> > - Kumho Ecsta V700 - Racier (faster) than the Victoracer, needs 
> lots

> > of
> > negative camber, or they'll
> >                                         blister.  Not availible 
> in

> > all
> > sizes.
> 
> >

> > > - Michelin Pilot Cup - No experience, but big $$$$$.
> > >  - Falken Azenis - super sticky street tire - probably the 
> closest

> > to
> > a
> > track tire of a street tire
> >                                 I've driven, much of the good 
> feel

> > with
> > better wear. Other runners in STS
> >                                 seem to feel that the Pilot 
> Sports

> > are a
> > bit better performing, but nearly twice
> 
> >                                 the price. Again, this is a 
> street

> > tire,
> > not an R-rubber tire.
> >

> > >  - Hoosiers - Excellent race tire, BUT, require an absolute 
> TON

> > of
> > negative camber or they'll
> >                              likely self destruct. On lighter 
> cars

> > (such
> > as my GTi) they need 2+ degrees of
> 
> >                              negative camber, on a heavy rolling

> > super
> > pig, I doubt you'll ever get enough
> >                              negative camber to ever get them to

> > hook up
> > properly. They're VERY light
> >                              and have soft sidewalls, so they'll

> > only
> > survive with LOTS of pressure which
> >                               will load up the outer shoulder. 
> When

> > the
> > outer shoulder is that overloaded,
> 
> >                              they're is a risk of enough heat 
> build

> > up
> > to
> > blister, and a light carcass will heat
> >                              quickly. Heck, I managed to blister

> > Yok
> > A008Rs (way, WAY back when)
> 
> >                              on a 2200 lb solo car (driver/fuel
> 
> > included) when I had to run them at 50 psig.
> >

> >                               They wear out quite quickly, in

> > either
> > compound.
> 
> >

> > - Bridgestone ? NLA in R compound type tires (RE-71RAZ, stunk

> > anyway,
> > except in rain)
> >

> > >  - BFG Comps TA-R (NLA, BFG is out of the R-rubber business.

> > What's
> > availible are
> >                              leftovers, and they're not 
> discounted

> > much
> > anyway
> >

> > >-Yokohama 032R - Really more of a super street tire rather than 
> a

> > true
> > R
> > compound tire. Not
> >                         worth the effort, the newer Falken 
> Azenis

> > are
> > better street tires. The 032s and nowhere near an R-rubber tire.
> 
> > >-Yoko Advan 048 - Probably a heck of a near R rubber tire, BUT 
> -

> > check
> > availible sizes,
> 
> >                         probably quite limited.
> 
> >

> > - Other's to consider
> >

> >         Toyo Proxes - RA-1 - true race rubber - exclusive race

> > rubber
> > for
> > SpecMiata. No experience
> >

> > Teddy has a worthwhile comment however. Unless you are actually
> > competing, go for bang
> > for the buck.
> 
> >

> >

> > >
> 
> > >   http://members.rennlist.com/944sandmore/traktire.htm
> 
> > >
> 
> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >From: Trevor Frank [mailto:tfrank at symyx.com]
> 
> > > >
> > > >I bought the HTRZ II's and thought initially they where
> 
> > > >descent track tires, after one event in the rain.  At the
> 
> > > >second event I got a dry track and they chunked up really bad
> 
> > > ......
> >

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