[s-cars] Crank Bolt From Hell (lessons learned)

[Kevin Day]

Well, be careful not to go too extreme in the other direction.  I had
the opposite problem from yours in a Subaru I used to have.  Whoever did
the timing belt before I got the car didn't properly loctite and/or
torque the crank bolt, and it eventually backed out.  That made a big 
mess of the crankshaft nose.  The keyway was pretty much gone.  The 
proper fix for that is obviously very expensive, and the improper fix 
is not confidence inspiring...

-Kevin

On Tue, Jan 04, 2005 at 08:45:34AM -0700, Southerlin, Russell S wrote:
> I forgot to mention this part.
> 
> No, the threads did not show any obvious signs of locking compound but
> there
> was kind of a shiny sheen to the thread surface - not sure if this was
> lube
> or not.
> 
> I suspect this may have been the factory installation i.e original
> timing belt.  
> The bolt head had no signs of wear from being previously removed.
> 
> There was no sign of locking compound under the head of the bolt?
> 
> What is recommended for locking compound? I have Permatex blue which is
> the
> non-permanent type.  I am planning on using it sparingly on the threads
> only
> and try to not get any on the head of the bolt.
> 
> Russ
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fred Munro [mailto:munrof at sympatico.ca]
> Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 07:41 PM
> To: Southerlin, Russell S; Tom Mullane
> Cc: s-car-list at audifans.com
> Subject: RE: [s-cars] Crank Bolt From Hell (lessons learned)
> 
> 
> Hi Russ;
> 
> When you removed the bolt, did the threads have lubricant on them? Were
> there signs of locking compound under the bolt head or on the threads?
> 
> I use a 3/4" drive socket and breaker bar with a 6 foot pipe extension
> for
> this job.
> 
> Fred Munro
> '94 S4
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com
> [mailto:s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com]On Behalf Of Southerlin, Russell
> S
> Sent: January 2, 2005 8:19 PM
> To: Tom Mullane
> Cc: s-car-list at audifans.com
> Subject: RE: [s-cars] Crank Bolt From Hell (lessons learned)
> 
> 
> Tom,
> The tranny was in neutral so any stress transmitted through the clutch
> would be from the mass of the tranny gears, clutch and such.  It dis not
> appear that much of the "torque" was getting transmitted through the
> tranny as I could hold the harmonic balancer from rotating relatively
> easy by hand.  I can see where the impact hammering could potentially
> affect rod bearings and such.
> 
> I was wondering myself if the gun may have cracked the key.  The impact
> only puts torque into the head of the bolt and very little into the key
> IMO, where the conventional tool is reacting the torque through the
> harmonic balancer and potentially into the keyway.  I believe the forces
> on the keyway are much greater with the tools vs. the impact.  Maybe the
> impact has other negative side affects but I still think a sheared key
> is less likely with the impact.
> 
> Maybe the thing to do would be to try the conventional tool up to about
> 600ft-lbs and if it does not budge then do the impact.
> 
> Russ
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Mullane [mailto:tmullane at snet.net]
> Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 5:52 PM
> To: Southerlin, Russell S
> Cc: s-car-list at audifans.com
> Subject: RE: [s-cars] Crank Bolt From Hell (lessons learned)
> 
> 
> Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2005 17:20:09 -0700
> From: "Southerlin, Russell S" <russell.s.southerlin at lmco.com>
> Subject: [s-cars] Crank Bolt From Hell (lessons learned)
> To: s-car-list at audifans.com
> Message-ID:
> 	<3352E03FC741BB4E97EDB6991C8DC44105CB1A83 at emss02m18.us.lmco.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> 
> 
> Russ,
> 
> Sounds like a fun time.
> 
> I disagree with you about the impact gun.  The gun is tough on the
> clutch,
> trans, and possibly the rod bearings.  Sometimes ya gotta do what ya
> gotta
> do to get things apart, but the impact is a last resort for me.  I
> wonder if
> the key was cracked by the impact gun?  I've seen them damaged, but
> usually
> when the bolt is too loose - obviously not an issue in your case ;-)
> 
> Tom
> 
> 
> <snip>
> Now for the lessons learned.  I believe the safest way to remove the
> crank
> bolt is the impact wrench.  I believe if I had continued to apply more
> torque to the bolt with a bigger breaker bar it would have sheared off
> the
> keyway and possibly spun the crank - not a good day no matter how you
> look
> at it.  Next time I will acquire a 3/4 inch impact by renting or
> borrowing.
> The impact only applies the force right at the bolt head and it is not
> reacted through the harmonic balancer and keyway.  The proper tool
> (3056?
> tool) or my home made tool reacts the torque through the harmonic
> balancer
> and keyway which is not designed to take 800ft-lbs.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> Russ
> 95.5 S6
> Castle Rock, CO
> 
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