[s-cars] More Rear taillight discussions

Tue Apr 25 11:48:52 EDT 2006

OK, let's agree to disagree.

I think we all agree that amber indicators are more visible than red and
given the choice between a) what Audi NA thinks is safe (4 tail light
bulbs and red indicators) and b) what Audi (outside of NA) thinks is
safe (2 tail lights and amber indicators, we pick b.

Back to our regular programming...

Sean

> -----Original Message-----
> From: s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com 
> [mailto:s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com] On Behalf Of Dave Forgie
> Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 9:10 PM
> To: r0ssat0_987 at att.net; KBATPO at comcast.net
> Cc: s-car-list at audifans.com
> Subject: [s-cars] More Rear taillight discussions
> 
> 
> Igor and Bob (and Sean cheering them on):  I never said that 
> I didn't think amber rear signal lights were bad. I have said 
> in the past and say again, amber turn signals are great.  My 
> 1986 picked-up-at-the-factory Jetta has them and I know by 
> the way people get it to the right lane when I signal left 
> way ahead of them that the amber lights are visible.  
> However, on the same stretch of road and the same turn, when 
> I drive the S-car (I am only 5 km from work so its a bit of a 
> waste), the same result happens, people can see the 30 W (2 x 
> 15W)  of red turn signal just as well or better than the 
> amber in the Jetta.
> 
> I lived and drove in Europe for 13 months (1986-87). I know 
> what their taillights looked like. Frankly I disagree that 5W 
> per side is highly visable. I thought they were pathetically 
> under lit. That era BMWs were particularly bad.  VWs not much 
> better. Audi Turbo 100/200s were pretty good by comparison.
> 
> Perhaps if you had been rear ended while sitting at a stop 
> light minding your own business (not in the Audi) as many 
> times as I have, you would be as paranoid about having your 
> car visable to the rear as I am.  My theory is 2 x 3 x 5 W = 
> 30 W is >>> 2 x 5 W = 10 pathetic W.  But that's just me.
> 
> Each to their own.  I am perfectly happy with my "unique" 
> set-up.  Hmmm..I wonder if Apikol or 034efi is going to copy 
> this one too???
> 
> <snicker>
> 
> Dave F.  
> 
> >>> "Robert Rossato" <r0ssat0_987 at att.net> 04/24/06 07:40PM >>>
> > Dave Forgie wrote:
> > > Igor: Thanks for your (and Mark's and Fred's) response.   
> > You're right we    
> > > don't agree on either headlights or taillights (I hate the
> > loss of light with    
> > > Euro look-red/blink orange corners and, as you might 
> remember, I     
> > > converted both rear fog lights to run two filament bulbs in
> > 1999).    
> >  
> > Mmmm Dave, I still stubbornly stand by the opinion that
> > actually my Euro  
> > tail lenses (look red/blink orange) are brighter and are more  
> > distinct  
> > (read: safer) than the all-red DOT ones found in the American  
> > UrS cars. ;-)
> 
> I agree with you 100%, Igor.  I brought this up last week as 
> part of the LED discussion.  Amber turn signals are by far 
> the best and safer choice.  I wouldn't even care if they 
> weren't a look red/blink amber version as long as I have 
> amber turn signals.  No need to decipher brake or turn 
> signal.  What Dave is alluding to with his "loss of light" 
> comment is that the US tail light has two 5W parking bulbs 
> per corner, one if which is a dual filament for the turn 
> signal.  This was done because of the USDOT requirement to 
> have a side light.  Since the turn signal lens wraps around 
> the corner, a dual filament bulb can accomplish both 
> requirements.  By switching to the Euro tail lights you end up with
> one 5W bulb per corner instead of two for parking lights.   
> 
> But with all due respect, Dave, you're solving a problem that 
> doesn't exist.  Two 5W tail lights is more than adequate, and 
> you now have 6?? I honestly don't see the need.  The vast 
> majority of European cars are set up with only two 5W bulbs.  
> I have made a point of checking out various Audi/VW/Mercedes 
> with the two 5W bulb arrangement at night and you can see 
> them far, far away.  Far enough away that you could coast to 
> a stop before you even reached them, even in the rain.  
> Frankly you'd have to be blind not to see the car.  And if 
> it's raining hard enough, or a heavy enough fog that the 
> visibility range is reduced, well then
> that is what the fog light is for.   
> 
> 
> > > I do agree that OEM HIDs are the best but they are WAY too
> > $$$.  Sean
> > >  D. in our Vancouver club imported a set from Germany. They
> > look good
> > >  but a replacement bulb/ballast is about US$500 each. In
> > constrast,    
> > > several of our club members have done an LLTek or 
> McCullough HID    
> > > conversion (with Euro headlight lenses) and they work about
> > the same as
> > >  OEM for way less money.
> >  
> > With all due respect to both Sean and yourself I would politely
> > disagree. As I was doing my home work and assessing various 
> options I  
> > myself had looked into the OEM HIDs off a '97 Euro S6+. I promptly  
> > scrapped the idea due to the two compelling reasons:
> > a) @ ~$2k/ea. it was an outrageously expensive proposition at  
> > the time.
> > b) as you have rightfully pointed out, the idea of a replacement  
> > bulb/ballast assy as a whole does not rub me the right way as  
> > an engineer.
> >  
> > I also scrapped the cheap'n'dirty approach of installing a
> > $500 hacked  
> > kit with custom D2S bulbs grafted onto some 9006 bases also  
> > due to two  
> > compelling reasons:
> > a) a Physicist in me felt that placing the HID hot spot  
> > precisely in the  
> > focal point of a Halogen projector (reflector/lens assy) not  
> > built for  
> > that very purpose was too much of a challenge for a handyman  
> > kit maker.
> > b) I do not like to be bound with an umbilical cord to some 
> obscure  
> > custom bulb manufacturer.
> 
> I agree here as well.  I went a similar route to what you 
> did, but instead of the BMW 740 lights, I used '00-'02 Euro 
> A6 versions and grafted them into the housings.  A few other 
> folks have done this as well, though with the US A6 xenons.  
> It's just a matter of making some simple brackets.  I went 
> with the Euro versions because they were supposed to have a 
> better light output that the US versions, though I haven't 
> done an official photometric comparison.  You can find them 
> all day long on German Ebay.  Just look for headlights with 
> broken tabs and they go real cheap.  All you want is the 
> guts.  I paid a total of $300 for the pair, including 
> shipping from the Netherlands.  And as you stated, you don't 
> have any problems with bulb alignment since the whole 
> projector and bulb is being replaced as a unit.
> 
> The wiring was easy as well.  I just used the low beam wires 
> to power the ballast, making the connection inside the 
> housing.  I have no problems with the autocheck system giving 
> me warnings or any other interference, and I can turn the 
> lights off and on rapidly and repeatedly if I so desire with 
> no problems, which is no surprise since it is a factory setup 
> for all intents and purposes.  I have heard of folks with the 
> universal kit that need to wait a few seconds for the lights 
> to come back on if they shut them off and try to turn them 
> back on too quickly.
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> This e-mail and its attachments are intended solely for the 
> person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain 
> confidential and/or privileged  
> information.  Any review, dissemination, copying, printing or 
> other use of  
> this e-mail by persons or entities other than the addressee 
> is prohibited   
> If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender  
> immediately and delete the material from any computer.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> S-CAR-List mailing list
> S-CAR-List at audifans.com 
> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-> car-list
> 