[s-cars] straight skinny on Euro van stroker motor

[Ron Wainwright]

 Paul, coments inserted below,

--- P Cole <pcolegrps at mn.rr.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 05:37:05 -0700 (PDT), Ron
> Wainwright wrote:
> 
> >
> > Listers, I want to talk to any one who's used the
> >Euro van lower end for a stroker motor. I'd love to
> >
> 
> Ron,
> First things first-
>  To use the EV block REQUIRES machining  and/or
> engineering quite a bit of stuff to work like the 
> factory MC/3b/AAN blocks.  Some items ( in no
> particular order and the list isn't exhaustive)
> 1- you need to have the oil squirters machined and
> installed- saves the pistons, reduces heat loading 
> even IF you have the piston top/CC coated ( which in
> and of itself is a good idea)

 Yes the EV block with requir machining. Oil squarters
need to be installed, a turbo bung needs to replace
one of the freeze plugs, bored to 83mm.
 I was thinking of getting the piston tops CC'd..but
they will be Weisco pistons 833mm 21mm wrist pin
29.25mm CH & 12cc dish. As far as rods there Pauter
159mm VW spec ABA rods 21mm w/pin

> 2- you need a path for the turbo return line added
> to the block ( or pan but that path tends to
> back oil up into the turbo bearings)

 Mentioned above^^^
 
> 3- you need to engineer a new ( compatible with
> turbo) crankcase breather system.

 I'll have all that worked out as the motor
progresses. 
 
> 4- you need to decide on rod length. The stock audi
> rods won't work ( MC1 or 3B/AAN) as they are 
> too short to take advantage of the taller block AND
> the stroke. The stock VW's are too weak to make
> big power without failing.

 Mentioned above^^^^

> 5- You need new pistons to work with the new rods.
> Some combination of Audi/VW parts can be 
> made to work but just say NO and order up some
> custom ones ( rods, pistons,pins,rings)
> Piston specs-
>  82.5mm, 22mm wrist pins, 9.2:1 CR , Rod/length
> wrist pin location depends on just how far you 
> want to push the rod ratio and piston
> acceleration/speeds. 

 All that stuff is jumbled in my folder but I worked
all that all with some expert help ;)

> 7- the correct timing belt needs to be installed.

 Allready worked that out.

> 8....  a ton more stuff but that will get you
> started.

 My head is still spinnin.
 
> 9- It's seriously look at a dry sump ( yeah they're
> a grand but hell what's the budget on this project)
> 'cause it really is THE only way to oil a high end
> engine.

 There will be alot of oil going to the rite places at
the correct flow.
 & budget...??? whatever it takes!!

> - The entire engine internals need to be DESIGNED
> correctly to allow the engine to run well, make 
> power and be reliable. 
> 
> Javad and others ( eurospec, 2bennett, etc ) have
> done most of the work but actually want real $$
> to do it or share the data.

 No they don't want a lot of $$$ specialy if you ask
nicely :-)
 
> You might want to invest a few $$ in one of the PC
> engine simulators ( hell that's what the Drag and 
> NASCAR folk use to test new design ideas) and use
> THAT to test the various parts options.
> 
> You'll need to have the EV and all the various
> engine internals available for measurement so that
> the
> sim data is correct. Given that, the project isn't
> THAT hard- hell folks have been building "stroker" 
> american engines forever. Pick up any of the "hot
> rod" XYZ  books ( www.motorbooks.com or B&N 
> etc) and read a little. Building high end Audi
> engines isn't ANY different ( contrary to some
> folks) 
> than building Chevy, Ford or Mopar engines- it's
> just that the parts cost way more $$$ and the R&D 
> numbers ( engine blueprint data etc) are not as
> readily available.
> 
> Do not be discouraged by the naysayers, this is a
> complicated effort but it's not exactly rocket
> science 
> either. Just take your time, measure everything, run
> the calculations a lot and ask questions.

 Yes I've been hearing that advise from a few
knowledgeable listers. & it's all soaking in.

> There is no "one way" to design this- there are
> parts and dimensional decisions to be made etc.
> 
> As for that comment about there isn't anything
> beyond an RS2 , well that is just a crock.

 & those naysayers will believe I'll shoot
vidio!..can't dispute the tape!

> Many people HAVE spent tons of money trying to build
> "monster" Audi engines and FAILED so 
> there is a risk there, just be reasonable in the
> requirements.
> Frank Beddor spent around 250k trying to outdo the
> factory 2.2 SQ engines and finally just gave up 
> and sent them all back to Lehmann for rebuild.
> 
> As long as your goals are modest ( say 150-70
> hp/liter) and you take due diligence you should be
> able 
> to design and build a good performing engine that
> will also be reasonably reliable.

 Hope 550Whp falls into the "modest" range ;>

> One of the factory's constraints is engine warranty
> and public perception- if you need to have the
> "stock" ( even the factory hot rods count here)
> reliability ie 150-200k miles then you are hamstrung
> in 
> what you can achieve.

 Won't be a DD by no means. Just a Corvette eater,
Mustand muncher, & Evo killer!! 
 
> FYI- sometime later this fall I'll be designing and
> building a 2.6l stroker 20vt from my EV and
> the myriad of 7A parts I have. I'll let you know how
> it goes. First I have to get some project cars 
> actually running ( the Urq, the CQ V8 conversion,
> etc etc)
> 
> Best regards,
> Paul R. Cole

 I plan on finishing for next years Waterfest. But
hope to get it done by the end of Winter. &
I'm using a 93 AAN S4 head, diffrent intake bigger
throttle body, bigger injectors, tubular manifold,
GT40R .82A/R, 034 IIC monster. & the only thing I'll
change on the top end are the valve springs, stock
everything else. & the lower end will get RS
bearings/rod bearings, ARP studs, high flow fuel
pump..the list seems to go on forever.

 I'de love to talk to you more Paul as things
progress.
Thanx
Ron
90 80q 2.6l 20vt stroker project
90 v8q 3.6 not stock
93 v8q 4.2 "The Green Monster"


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