[s-cars] Was Bad CPS- Now Bad Crank Pulley

Thu Jun 22 16:45:26 EDT 2006

Dave,

Whoa!! All stop, there, don't get carried away yet.  I think you need  
to have another discussion with the
service adviser and owner of that dealership.   If the crank pulley  
is bad it was broken in their hands.
If not, they replaced a bad pulley when they removed and replaced the  
timing belt, because by their own
description of the work necessary they had to remove the timing belt.

The damage done was done after they worked on the engine and then  
turned it over and over and over
doing compression checks, etc, before they verified that the engine  
was not in time.

Unfortunate as the damage is, it is their problem to make it right,  
which probably means new head at a minimum.

I am just not a fan of dealers doing any AAN engine work because the  
expertise is gone at most dealers.  This is just
a do it by the numbers job that you check and recheck because you  
can't afford to get it wrong.  But, guess what, this
dealership got it wrong.  If you look, you will probably find some  
junior mechanic who has never seen a 5 cyl up close,
much less a 20v, was assigned to do the work, and it all went  
downhill from there.

Ok, enough ranting.

Does anyone on the list have anything from Dr Richard Mock ?? from  
Chicago I think, that had the Audi done at Hoffman
Audi ?? somewhere, I think, that had the timing done wrong and then  
was having to sue them for damage done.  He had
a very solid case all documented and played out on this list two or  
three years ago, but I can't find any archives.

He sold the car a year or so ago after advertising on s-cars, I  
believe to someone in TX.  It was a very nice green S4 or S6.

Tom

Dave wrote:
> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:02:49 -0400
> From: hoog23 at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [s-cars] Was Bad CPS - Now Bad Crank Pulley
> To: seiche at shadetreesoftware.com, s-car-list at audifans.com
> Message-ID: <8C8644DF8FC3010-1454-2C4 at FWM-D06.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Bingo!
>
> After telling them to check this on Tues they swore up and down  
> that it was fine.
>
> Now (2 days later) they say that the crank pulley/key/harmonic  
> balancer is no good.  This is after looking into the cylinder head  
> with a scope (they had wanted to pull the whole head!).
>
> They are also saying that I need to new t-belt, etc ($600 in parts  
> alone).
>
> If not covered under my extended warranty why it will be on a  
> flatbed to my mechanic's shop tomorrow.
>
> So Mark replace that pulley!
>
> Dave
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Eiche <seiche at shadetreesoftware.com>
> To: hoog23 at aol.com; s-car-list at audifans.com
> Sent: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:57:50 -0600
> Subject: Re: [s-cars] Was Bad CPS - Now No Compression or Spark
>
>
> By definition, #1 MUST be all the way up at Top Dead Center. If  
> they didn't remove the crank pulley, then they do not know that the  
> key has not sheared. I have seen this three times now with the  
> EXACT same symptoms. One "Master Mechanic" even sent me the ECU  
> (nothing wrong with it) after changing the cam sensor twice, and  
> both flywheel sensors. He even told me that he had checked the  
> timing and that it was right on. Guess what. It wasn't...
>
> I won't guarantee that this is the problem, but it sure fits the  
> symptoms from here.
>
> hoog23 at aol.com wrote:
>
>> The service advisor said that they checked and there wasn't a key  
>> sheared.
>>> Also said that they checked the timing off the flywheel (which  
>>> had a > very very faint mark) and that the piston was not totally  
>>> all the way > up when it should be at TDS. Shouldn't this tell us  
>>> that something is > wrong?
>>> Also the leak down test proved 'inconclusive.'
>>> I am so frustrated. I did not dare to ask how much $$ I am in  
>>> for. > Not sure whether to cut my losses and still have car towed  
>>> to my > independant mechanic. > > My only hope is that they find  
>>> something that is covered under my > extended warranty and then  
>>> negotiate with the extended warranty > company on the diagnostic  
>>> time.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Mark Strangways <Strangconst at rogers.com>
>> To: seiche at shadetreesoftware.com; hoog23 at aol.com; s-car- 
>> list at audifans.com
>> Sent: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:58:39 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [s-cars] Was Bad CPS - Now No Compression or Spark
>>
>> Good call.. I would agree with that one. > If it was way off, or  
>> is still way off... you will have some bent valves. > BTDT, just  
>> not with a 20V engine. > > Mark > ----- Original Message -----  
>> From: "Steve Eiche" > <seiche at shadetreesoftware.com <mailto:seiche% 
>> 40shadetreesoftware.com>> > To: <hoog23 at aol.com <mailto:hoog23% 
>> 40aol.com>>; > <s-car-list at audifans.com <mailto:s-car-list% 
>> 40audifans.com>> > Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 2:30 PM > Subject:  
>> Re: [s-cars] Was Bad CPS - Now No Compression or Spark > > > Did  
>> the dealer check the engine timing? This sounds like a classic >  
>> case > of the key on the crankshaft pulley shearing. This allows  
>> the > engine to > get out of time. Depending upon how far it  
>> moved, you will > get a cam > position sensor fault code. > > > >  
>> Make sure that the check the engine timing with the flywheel mark  
>> > and the > camshaft sprocket, NOT the crank pulley. > > > > Steve  
>> > > > > > > > > I did originally tell them to proceed after he  
>> swore up and down > that > there was no easy way to swap out the  
>> sender. BTW - 'Hall > Sendor' is Cam > Position Sensor, correct? >  
>> > > > Once I called him to tell him to stand down they were  
>> already into > the > job. > > > > I phoned him this morning with  
>> some suggestions as to the current > problems > (ecu fuse, belt  
>> jumped a few teeth, gas soaking the oil off > they cylinder >  
>> walls,etc) and he said the considered all of those and > they were  
>> going to > perform a leak down test. > > > > > >  
>> _______________________________________________ > > S-CAR-List  
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>
> -- Steve Eiche 
> Shade Tree Software, LLC
> http://www.shadetreesoftware.com http://www.prodiag-hd.com
> seiche at shadetreesoftware.com
> 303.940.2468
>
> ______________________________________________________________________ 
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