[s-cars] CEO car (Quattro... sort of)

[Taka Mizutani]

Calvin-
That really doesn't make a lot of sense- if what you state below are the
factors that affect exhaust note, then radically different engine designs
shouldn't sound alike at all.

Ford modular 4.6 and 5.4 motors sound very similar to small-block pushrod
Ford engines- e.g. 289, 302, 351, etc. How can that be? The combustion
chamber, valve design, etc. are radically different between a OHV, SOHC and
DOHC design. The current 3v motor also sounds nearly the same. Doesn't
matter whether the engines have log manifolds, unequal-length headers,
equal-length headers, they still sound like Fords, nothing like a Chevy
engine.

Considering that in a OHV pushrod engine, the 2v cylinder head can only be
optimized so far in running pump gas and nothing truly exotic being used, it
doesn't really make sense that a LS-6 and a 351W don't sound similar.

The Nextel Cup cars are even more similar, but you can definitely hear the
difference between a Ford and a Chevy. Much more difficult to tell between a
Dodge and a Chevy.

Don't take this as a jab- I'm trying to understand what you're saying but
I'm not getting it- if you care to elaborate further, I'm all for it.

As for Audi content- the Audi 4.2 sounds a lot like a Ford, BMW or Nissan
V-8. I thought this was due to firing order. I can't remember off-hand what
the Audi S4 uses for manifolds, but the BMW V-8 uses equal-length
tuned-pulse headers (in the E39 M5) and still sounds very similar to the
Audi and the Nissan (in the Titan it uses a log manifold).

Taka



On 4/16/07, calvinlc at earthlink.net <calvinlc at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>  Taka,
>
> No, I wasn't saying that you stated that the V-12's sounded anythinkg like
> a Camaro, I was simply trying to re-state what I had said in a previous
> e-mail in a different way so that you understood what I was trying to
> say...I guess I could have just said you should read more carefully :)  It's
> that whole communicating through e-mail thing...sorry.
>
> Anyway, just to set the record straight, the 289 Ford has EXACTLY the same
> firing order as a Chevy small block.  Yes, I know the numbers are different,
> 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 for a Chevy and 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 for a Ford, but you have to
> look at the difference in the way the cylinders are numbered.
>
> Chevy    Ford
> 1            5
> 2            1
> 3            6
> 4            2
> 5            7
> 6            3
> 7            8
> 8            4
>
> So if you do the replacement and shift the start point by one cylinder
> (since it's a circle it doesn't matter) you will find that the firing orders
> are the same.
>
> The valve sizes, exhaust port designs, combustion chamber shrouding of the
> valves and burn pattern, etc. have a lot more to do with the exhaust note.
> That's why the brands maintain unique sounds even after exhaust system
> changes, camshaft adjustments, etc.
>
> --Calvin
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* Taka Mizutani [mailto:t44tqtro at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 15, 2007 6:07 PM
> *To:* calvinlc at earthlink.net
> *Cc:* Pasqualoni, James E; pkrasusky at ups.com; s-car-list at audifans.com;
> wmahoney at disk.com
> *Subject:* Re: [s-cars] CEO car (Quattro... sort of)
>
> You took my statement and twisted it- show me a GM V-8 with the same
> firing order and same crank orientation as a Ford.
>
> Those two factors make the biggest difference in the sound of the engine.
> You can hear the difference from far, far away.
>
> Also, I never said you would mistake the sound of a Testarossa with a
> Camaro or Mustang- I said I prefer the sound of a 12, be it flat or V, in
> terms of the engine note. You should read more carefully.
>
> Taka
>
>
> On 4/14/07, calvinlc at earthlink.net <calvinlc at earthlink.net > wrote:
> >
> >  To take your statement one step further there is no such thing (at
> > least in the real musclecar era) as a GM V-8...Pontiacs sound totally
> > different than a Buick, Chevy, Oldsmobile, etc.  I guess my point was that
> > for those who have not built a lot of American V-8's they could easily
> > mistake a Ford for a Chevy or vice versa.  BTW, this is especially true with
> > open headers.  However, I very seriously doubt anybody would ever mistake a
> > Testarossa  sound for a Camaro or a Mustang 5.Slow
> >
> > --Calvin
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > *From:* Taka Mizutani [mailto:t44tqtro at gmail.com]
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 11, 2007 5:49 AM
> > *To:* calvinlc at earthlink.net
> > *Cc:* Pasqualoni, James E; pkrasusky at ups.com; s-car-list at audifans.com;
> > wmahoney at disk.com
> > *Subject:* Re: [s-cars] CEO car (Quattro... sort of)
> >
> > Big block GM doesn't sound anything like a Ford!
> >
> > A worked, oversquare 289 doesn't sound anything like anything that GM
> > makes.
> > Different firing order, oversquare vs. undersquare, high-rpm vs. low
> > rpm.
> >
> > I think the Z06 sounds sweet, but it's a totally different sound than
> > the Ford- much more
> > bass in the exhaust note (even w/ Corsa), the Ford has a lot more
> > midrange and treble
> > in the sound.
> >
> > Closest thing in the GM camp would be a C3 LT-1 vette or a 302 crossram
> > Camaro Z-28.
> >
> > I guess I just don't really like Ferrari V-8s- that flat-plane crank
> > gives it a rather dull sound.
> >
> > The flat and V-12s are, OTOH, a totally different experience, although I
> > still prefer the Lambo
> > sound (I have a clip of a catless 6-carb Countach 5000QV that sounds
> > unreal).
> >
> > Taka
> >
> >
>