[s-cars] a/c capacity...recharge

Thu Aug 2 22:55:12 EDT 2007

Quote "Is there anything worse about a black on black car, in 95+
> degree heat and having to have the windows up?
>
> <Gasp Choke>"

Having spicy chili the nite before !!!

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James C. Mairs" <jmairs at cetaq-americas.com>
To: "'s-car-list'" <s-car-list at audifans.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: [s-cars] a/c capacity...recharge

> Once again thanks for all the replies Tom and others.  Side note I got 
> lucky
> with VIN splits or whatever, my entire system is R134 not a converted R12.
> So no need to find a seller for R12 canisters, as any local Parts place 
> will
> carry the 12-14oz cans.
>
> My various responses are included in the post below.
>
> Feeling better about this... Shame though it wont be done for the weekend,
> and Friday at least here is supposed to reach upper parts of 95 humid and
> t-storms.... Is there anything worse about a black on black car, in 95+
> degree heat and having to have the windows up?
>
> <Gasp Choke>
>
> Thanks again folks!
>
>
> -Jim
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Tom Green [mailto:trgreen at comcast.net]
>> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 9:01 PM
>> To: s-car-list; jmairs at cetaq-americas.com
>> Subject: Re:[s-cars] a/c capacity...recharge
>>
>> There are no VAG specific tools used to evacuate and charge the
>> system Jim, even at the dealer.  The high pressure port fitting fits
>> on a standard
>> automotive a/c gage set, Kent-Moore or similar, or the newer recovery
>> units with
>> integral gage set.  Your HVAC friend should have no trouble
>> evacuating and
>> charging the system using the standard high pressure port.  There may
>> be some
>> question of how much oil to add back to the system.  With your system
>> already
>> back together you won't be able to drain the compressor to change the
>> oil and
>> check quantity.  If you didn't drain or blow any oil from the
>> compressor, I would
>> assume it is still full and only add the make-up for the accumulator,
>> evaporator
>> and condenser, or 2 oz according to Bentley.  If it was drained, add
>> 2.7 oz in the
>> compressor through the drain plug and the rest through the gage set when
>> recharging to make up the 8.5 oz total.  There are some universal
>> oils out there,
>> my compressor has pag 100 in it.   Oh, the drain is on top of the
>> compressor, so
>> you can't drain it if it is bolted to the engine.
>
> [JCM]
>
> Excellent input on the 2oz, I didn't drain the system of PAG when I was in
> there doing all the other work.  Good or Bad, I couldn't determine if it 
> was
> going to help me to do so, so I didn't.  I know when I was clearing a few
> separated lines, there was trace amounts of PAG fluid for sure.  I never 
> did
> remove the lines at the back of the compressor though.  So perhaps 2oz and 
> I
> will be good to go.  I guess I will be aware of the issue that it may not 
> be
> 8.5 oz but at least it will be as close as possible without over filling.
>
>
>>
>> An accurate scale to measure the amount of refrigerant removed from
>> the tank
>> should result in around 100 psi on the gage, and 290 psi operating
>> (close tank
>> valve first).  The electric fan should operate and the engine fan
>> clutch locks up
>> when the engine gets to operating temperature.  Turn the a/c to low
>> and recirc
>> and you should have cold air at about 40 F.
>>
>> What your a/c friend may not like is there is no service port to
>> check the system
>> balance and and fill and fine tune the system while operating, so you
>> have to
>> shut down, cool off the system after you've got it really hot
>> checking it out, just
>> to add another 1/2 oz or so to fine tune the operating pressure and
>> duct temp
>> for optimum performance.  I guess you could put the gage low pressure
>> hose
>> connection on the compressor fitting for a reading, but the one you
>> want is at
>> the orifice, and don't even think about adding liquid refrigerant
>> there.  You need
>> to know what you are doing to add it at the orifice so no liquid
>> reaches the
>> compressor.
>
>
> [JCM]
> Ok that makes a lot of sense, as he mentioned the time to do this should 
> be
> only a few minutes for evac'ing the system, then filling but he said he 
> may
> need the most time doing final adjustments.  I will print out this email 
> so
> he can take a read through it and do as he sees fit.
>
> One of the only things that comes to mind at this point was he mentioned I
> may want to look into R134 specific to higher mileage cars, he doesn't 
> stock
> this version but mentioned it would be worth tracking some down.
>
>>
>> The threads you have been following and a friend with HVAC tools should
>> make this a no-sweat (pun intended) operation.  The extensive threads
>> are
>> just guys wanting an easier way because they don't have a HVAC
>> friend, and
>> just need a little make-up after 10 years operation.  Bentley has
>> extensive
>> coverage for a/c diagnosis and repair.
>
>
> [JCM]
> Well that's good news, it took some time for me to track down a PAPER
> version of the Bentleys.  I just don't see the value in a shop manual on
> DVD...  The manuals should be here hopefully tomorrow (Friday).  Which 
> will
> give me some time to read over the various tests, and charge specific 
> texts.
> As far as easier for the future, I know my friend asked if I wanted to 
> plumb
> in a Low side T fitting to make this easier in the future.  I hadn't
> answered him on this yet.  Going to try to get my ducks in a row first on
> the normal system, have him take a look at it (Lives a bit far from me) 
> then
> after he has a chance to see what he is working with, I will probably 
> order
> whatever is needed for the next recharge or such.
>
>>
>> Check the links I just gave to Floyd on his oil pressure and other
>> questions.
>> The corporate history of several years of s-car ownership and repair
>> are on
>> those sites and a few others.
>
> [JCM]
> I think I might have missed the links you sent to Floyd.  Will go through
> the email box again and see if I missed something in the threads.  That 
> said
> even this amount of conversation makes me feel a lot better about what I
> need to get done to the system.  Your pun as you said was also made by my
> friend, keeps telling me to stop sweating it, and just get my car to his
> garage.  My interest in understanding this is one for my own knowledge (I 
> do
> all my own repairs, bar exhaust and tranny work, and I am just trying to
> make sure I have an understanding and all the materials needed for this so
> as not to waste my friends time when I get there and am missing 1 or 2
> stupid things that will put an end to this project.
>
>
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> > Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 14:55:21 -0400
>> > From: "James C. Mairs" <jmairs at cetaq-americas.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [s-cars] a/c capacity...recharge
>> > To: "'s-car-list'" <s-car-list at audifans.com>
>> > Message-ID: <01c601c7d536$ada4d6c0$0b03a8c0 at CeTaQJCM>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >
>> > Greetings Tom,
>> >
>> > Excellent information, I have been following the AC threads for
>> > some time
>> > now, trying to determine if anyone actually has followed through
>> > with a
>> > recharge without going to the dealer.  Lots of information but not
>> > a lot of
>> > BTDT with answers...
>> >
>> > Appreciate the info, side note the charge in the system was working
>> > fine
>> > before I tore the entire front end out and apart for a head
>> > rebuild, coupled
>> > with a lot of while I am in there fixes and replacements.
>> >
>> > AC in the car was working before breaking open the system, however
>> > I wish I
>> > had gone through the diagnostics to see how well it was working
>> > (HVAC codes
>> > and such) before taking it apart.  Alas a compromised head was
>> > leading me to
>> > not wanting to run the car for long periods of time.
>> >
>> > AC system was sealed back up after replacement of the dryer and new
>> > Variable
>> > Orifice Valve.  All lines separated were put back with new seals,
>> > and of all
>> > the lines only 1 was I able to flush completely before reassembly,
>> > mostly
>> > due to being to far into the project to want to spend more time and
>> > money.
>> > The others were just disconnected and compressed air to blow out
>> > whatever
>> > black sludge wanted to go flying out from whatever end wasn't pointed
>> > downward.
>> >
>> > Hope some other folks post up information if they have completed
>> > this as a
>> > DIY job.  Especially the fittings and procedure when not having the
>> > correct
>> > VAG tools...
>> >
>> > Thanks again Tom, if anyone else has any links or key words of
>> > wisdom to
>> > offer I am more than all ears.  Or if you happen to have any good
>> > archive
>> > thread searches I can use, mostly looking for BTDT's or things to
>> > watch out
>> > for, it would be appreciated.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> >
>> > -Jim
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Tom Green [mailto:trgreen at comcast.net]
>> > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 11:14 AM
>> > To: s-car-list; jmairs at cetaq-americas.com
>> > Subject: Re:[s-cars] a/c capacity...recharge
>> >
>> > Jim,
>> >
>> > Capacity is 21.2 to 23 oz refrigerant and 8.5 oz of Pag oil.  The
>> > high presssure port on the passenger side of the condenser is the only
>> > port used and evacuated and charged with engine off.  You can only
>> > measure the oil charge if you drain the oil (at the condenser) and
>> > change the accumulator since an unknown amount collects there.  The
>> > real trick is accurately measuring the refrigerant charge.
>> >
>> > If the system is in good condition with all fans and flaps working
>> > correctly in
>> > recirculate mode, the result should be about 40 F duct temperature at
>> > 95 F ambient.
>> >
>> > The system base pressure is 113.1 psi at 95 F (engine off) and 290 psi
>> > operating pressure with a full charge.
>> >
>> > Tom
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 18:24:47 -0400
>> >> From: "James C. Mairs" <jmairs at cetaq-americas.com>
>> >> Subject: [s-cars] AC Capacity...Re-Charge
>> >> To: "'s-car-list'" <s-car-list at audifans.com>
>> >> Message-ID: <015801c7d48a$c4c727b0$0b03a8c0 at CeTaQJCM>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >>
>> >> Greetings all,
>> >>
>> >> Bentley Manuals are in route via shipping, so I can not confirm the
>> >> following, or even if its listed.
>> >>
>> >> Does anyone know the capacity/recharge pressure amount for a 93 //S4?
>> >>
>> >> I have been following the threads here as much as possible on the
>> >> whole AC
>> >> snow flake conversation, as well as a quick search in the archives.
>> >>
>> >> I have a HVAC friend who is willing to run a vacuum test on my
>> >> system before
>> >> recharging it.  He doesn't seem to think it will be an issue, but
>> >> informed
>> >> me I should confirm what amount of R134 should be in the system.
>> >>
>> >> He has a large amount of fittings/adapters and such, its possible
>> >> we may
>> >> even just plumb in a connector with a generic fitting to make this
>> >> easier in
>> >> the future.  If/when I come up with a solution I will be sure to
>> >> post up my
>> >> findings... However in the mean time sitting in 93 degree heat in a
>> >> black on
>> >> black S4... I have to ask...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Anyone care to toss out a number?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -Jim
>
>
>
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