[s-cars] power steering trouble

Thu Aug 23 11:08:19 EDT 2007

Matt,

ATF as a fluid has all of the properties needed to be a great steering fluid... again, it is one of the most highly developed hydraulic fluids in industry.? At the inception of hydraulic drive transmissions, they utilized straight mineral oil.? Later, it was discovered that Sperm whale oil was an excellent base additive for ATF... but was banned sometime?in the 40's.

There is clearly something about the Audi components (likely the seals) that don't allow its use.? It appears that the Audi system uses a fluid that is significantly LESS developed than ATF.? In other words, something in the additive package kills it.

I think a few have hit it... likely, our seals can't deal with the effects of those additive packages.

Honestly, I can't even imagine why Audi moved in that direction.? I have two UrQs and my daughter drives an '86 coupe gt.? All use ATF, and none have leaky systems.? On the other hand, I've never owned a "Pentosin" Audi that wasn't spilling fluid... and I've owned a lot of them.? Doesn't seem to make sense...

my .02 on whales and seals...

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: matt ludwig. <urs6avant at gmail.com>
To: djdawson2 at aol.com
Cc: mike at urq20v.com; qweblog at gmail.com; s-car-list at audifans.com
Sent: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 8:30 am
Subject: Re: [s-cars] power steering trouble

Just out of curiosity, Dave- would you flush the open-loop system on your S4 and fill w/ ATF fluid if the known metrics of ATF and your extensive knowledge of fluid dynamics (as it pertains to diesels and our Scars) are so high??
?
I ask in a very serious manner as I respect your insights and opinions as much as anyone. It is curious to me too why VAG chose to run this fluid, over what I can only assume, was a great solution prior, in ATF.?
?
Sincerely,?
?
matt ludwig.?
?
1995.5 S6 Avant?
South Portland, Maine?
?
On Aug 23, 2007, at 10:19 AM, djdawson2 at aol.com wrote:?
?
>?
> I'll bite on #1... but no way on #2. ATF is one of the most highly > developed fluids in industry... designed specifically to handle > heat and pressure, while providing lubrication and minimal breakdown.?
>?
>?
>?
> It seems to me that the downside of ATF is what it does to our Audi > seals.?
>?
>?
>?
> Dave?
>?
>?
> -----Original Message-----?
> From: Mike Sylvester <mike at urq20v.com>?
> To: brian hoeft <qweblog at gmail.com>?
> Cc: s-car-list at audifans.com; djdawson2 at aol.com <djdawson2 at aol.com>?
> Sent: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 7:09 am?
> Subject: RE: [s-cars] power steering trouble?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> ATF has 2 problems in this system.?
>?
> 1) It will swell the seals. That is why your leak has reduced. > Eventually it will destroy them.?
>?
> 2) The ATF isn't meant for the heat and pressure. The fluid will > break down and not provide adequate lubrication.?
>?
>?
>?
> $15 a quart is cheap compared to using ATF.?
>?
> Mike?
>?
> www.urq20v.com?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> -------- Original Message --------?
> Subject: Re: [s-cars] power steering trouble?
> From: "brian hoeft" <qweblog at gmail.com>?
> Date: Wed, August 22, 2007 7:30 pm?
> To: "djdawson2 at aol.com" <djdawson2 at aol.com>?
> Cc: s-car-list at audifans.com?
>?
> it must be the season for hydraulic component issues.?
>?
> youre the third or fourth lister ive seen mentioning troubles in a > couple?
> weeks.?
>?
> i myself just got back from a cross country trip and sprung a > hydraulik leak?
> and not only couldnt find pentosin in Missouri and Kansas but was > leaking?
> too much to pay $15 a quart.?
>?
> sooo, i bought a $9 gallon of ATF that proved just fine and has > lasted a few?
> thousand miles with a quart or so left.?
>?
> but,, shame on me for dripping a gallon of ATF across middle America..?
>?
>?
> On 8/22/07, djdawson2 at aol.com <djdawson2 at aol.com> wrote:?
>>?
>>?
>> 1) Impact driver works best.??
>> http://www.matcotools.com/Catalog/toolcatalog.jsp?>> cattype=T&cat=2208&page=3&#28982?
>>?
>> 2) Blau sells the plug and o-ring kit?
>>?
>> 3) Don't run it low on fluid?
>>?
>> 4) 3 and 4 are closely related.? If you ignore #3 now, you'll be >> asking?
>> yourself another question similar to #4 very soon.?
>>?
>> Dave?
>>?
>>?
>> -----Original Message-----?
>> From: Mike Fitton <rfitton at vt.edu>?
>> To: s-car <s-car-list at audifans.com>?
>> Sent: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 3:40 pm?
>> Subject: [s-cars] power steering trouble?
>>?
>>?
>>?
>>?
>> ...otherwise known as: Help me not pay $360 for a seven-cent o-ring.?
>>?
>> So my power steering system has been slowing leaking fluid for >> several?
>> months now. It wasn't fast enough to worry about it until last?
>> weekend. I was kind of afraid it was the rack, so I kind of did the?
>> head in the sand bit for a while. Finally it started coming out fast?
>> enough to take a look. Rack's fine. It's coming out of that goofy >> plug?
>> on top of the pump. You know, the one that looks like a giant?
>> phillips-head. So I used my biggest flat-head and got it off >> relatively?
>> easily (the first time). Found an o-ring underneath that has clearly?
>> failed. But I didn't have a new o-ring for it and I'm fresh out of?
>> CHF-11S, so I stick it back on. Then I remembered that there's a?
>> 24-hour Advance not far from here, so I decided to take the o-ring >> with?
>> me over there to get a new one.?
>>?
>> But now I can't get the plug out. I didn't think I put it in that?
>> tight, but it isn't budging. After about an hour of messing with it,?
>> the plug itself isn't looking too healthy. I've used that screwdriver?
>> and a couple of other things. Even ground down a chisel to a flat >> tip,?
>> but everything just skips out of the head. I needed the car the next?
>> day, so I put some RTV around the edge hoping it would hold fluid. >> The?
>> RTV held at first, but now it's leaking again and not slowly. So >> I'm in?
>> desperate need of a new o-ring and preferably a new plug to stick in?
>> there.?
>>?
>> So my first question: anyone have any clever ideas how to get that?
>> little guy out??
>>?
>> Second question: can I get just a new plug from somewhere? There's a?
>> check valve under the plug that sits against it just so, so I >> can't just?
>> stick a random bolt in it. ETKA doesn't appear to list a separate p/n?
>> for it, so officially the only way to get a new plug is with a new >> pump.?
>>?
>> Third question: if I run out of p/s fluid for a few days before new?
>> fluid arrives in the mail, will it damage anything? The pump isn't >> such?
>> a big deal, but I'll be damned if I'm going to let a bad o-ring on >> the?
>> front of the engine destroy the rack on the firewall.?
>>?
>> Fourth question: why didn't I just look at it three months ago, >> like an?
>> intelligent and well-adjusted guy would have done??
>>?
>> -Cheers!?
>> Mike?
>> _______________________________________________?
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>>?
>>?
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>?
>?
>?
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