[s-cars] Quattro.... there is no substitute

[calvinlc at earthlink.net]

If you guys think the Haldex is bad you should check out all the new cars
equipped with the Borg Warner clutch pack system in the center rather than
any differential at all.  While similar to the Haldex it seems like this is
even worse from what I have seen.  One of my friend's got stuck with her
Subaru Baja...she couldn't understand why only one wheel was spinning on her
all wheel drive car :)  Well, the S4 with a tow strap on a sheet of ice
pulled it out of the snow bank it was in with no problem.

You have to be careful these days especially, because normally reliable
companies, like Subaru for instance, are starting to switch over some of
their fleets to this new system because they don't need to pay for a
differential this way.

Check out this link for the scoop on which one of the newer cars come with
this crap system.....it might surprise you that thinks like certain Grand
Cherokees are on this list.  Look under the "Clutch Pak Coupling" section -
you will find numerous examples here.  I looked on Borg Warner's site and
they have already sold well over 1 million units of this trash.  It's
bordering on false advertising to call this AWD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_wheel_drive

--Calvin




-----Original Message-----
From: s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com
[mailto:s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com]On Behalf Of LL - NY
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 6:31 PM
To: Taka Mizutani
Cc: s-car-list
Subject: Re: [s-cars] Quattro.... there is no substitute


Sorry to hear of the difficulties of Haldex, Taka.

We had 5+ of snow/sleet on top of sleet, and snow this morn. The Saabaru on
RSi's handled
things, pretty much like a quat, except with a bit of a loose tail vs. the
planted ass of a quattro.
It did quite well, this morning (speeds under 25, really needed to keep it
there) was decent,
this afternoon (after we (my car "pool") were released, coverage was set, so
we could go home)
was a different story. There were at least 21" of snow on the ground, with
drifts, road had about
9" of broken up (by other vehicles) snow, essentially unplowed. We were told
that they last plow
run was at 3 PM, and we hit the road at 3:10. Opposite lane was plowed. They
plowed the wrong
lane. So alternating between "wrong side" of the road driving where vision
was clear, and "right
side" around blind hills, curves etc, we set out. Here, I wish I was in the
//S-car. The back end
did want to come around often, so keeping one's foot in and countersteer was
the day's mantra
the whole 8 miles. Quite a bit less settled than the quattro (been through a
4KQ (QI), 200Q (QII)
and the //S6 (QIII), so I would concur, Quattro, there is no substitute.

LL - NY

On 2/14/07, Taka Mizutani <t44tqtro at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I hate to sound like a Porsche ad, but there really is no substitute for
> Quattro.
>
> Today we received about 3" of ice and snow, with a nice slushy layer of
> snow
> on top of the roads
> and slick ice underneath. Not a good combination at all.
>
> That said, I'd say these types of conditions are the most challenging, in
> terms of traction,
> kind of like loose gravel or mud.
>
> With the V70R shod with Nokian WR, I can officially say that Haldex sucks
> the big one.
>
> I have not had issues with the car in fresh *snow* but this icy stuff has
> the car completely
> confounded.
>
> Front drive starting off, then wheelspin and subsequent yaw, then DSTC
> tries
> to get things under
> control and with some countersteering and throttle inputs, it rights
> itself.
> This cycle repeats over and
> over with Haldex, because every time things get steady again, it reverts
> to
> FWD. This totally sucks.
>
> With the 5ktq on General Winterfire 195/65R15, I never had these issues.
> With the 200q on Nokian NRW 225/45R17, I never had these issues.
> With the A4q on Dunlop M2 205/55R16, I never had these issues.
>
> All of the Audis were remarkably consistent in their responses- icy
> conditions didn't cause the car to
> freak out. Zero traction is zero traction, but when there is some
> traction,
> having the car go from 100/0
> to 50/50 or whatever, constantly changing radically, is really ridiculous.
>
> I've had similar issues with Haldex on the Audi TT, so I really don't
> think
> it's a Volvo-only problem.
>
> Also, DSTC makes the car extremely difficult to drive- you can't initiate
> any slides- the car wants to
> perpetually understeer, makes it very difficult to turn on a really low
> traction surface. Looks like I'll be
> driving home with DSTC off (hit the button *7* times to turn it off!).
>
> Taka
> wanting an Audi again in a very bad way
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