[s-cars] Power Output Stages (POS) - Ignitors - Drastic Power Loss
Manuel Sanchez
manuelsanchez at starpower.net
Wed Oct 31 19:09:34 PDT 2007
Bob,
Yes with the new 034 DIS system I'm hitting the wall, but not with
the OEM Coil on plug and OEM POS system (I'm just not getting
combustion in one cylinder with those after some WOT runs).
I wonder what other reasons there may be for the ECU to cut power?
The codes I've pulled never made mention of any sort of knock, and my
mechanic said that if there was knock, it would throw a code. What I
don't know is, if the knock sensors picked up knock, if they would
cut power so severely . I wonder what other items would cause the
ECU to cut power? If it senses a failed Ignition Component, would it
cut so drastically or just stumble and burrp through it? Would the
ECU know if it was getting too little or too much fuel (some reading
from the Oxygen sensor, is that the only way the ECU knows how much,
if any fuel is being burned? The ECU sends a direct signal to open
and close the injectors right? Is the only way it knows if they have
done some properly via the Oxygen Sensor? The codes I've received are
all Oxygen sensor based.
These are the codes I've seen repeatedly in the past: (00537 – Oxygen
Sensor Control Maximum Control Level Exceeded / 00537 – Oxygen Sensor
Control Minimum Control Limit Exceeded).
I might have a gasket leak at the exhaust manifold, as well as at the
turbo to exhaust manifold gasket. My mechanic said he found some
loose bolts there.
Below is what the Bentley says about these codes
00537 – Oxygen Sensor Control
Maximum Control Level Exceeded
Condition:
Fuel Tank Low resulting in fuel system pressure less than 3.3 bar (48
psi) [Note tank was ¾ full as indicated on fuel gauge]
Ignition System Failure
Symptom:
CO before 3 way catalytic converter less than 0.5% (Hmmm, what could
this mean???)
Fuel Consumption high
Repair:
Fill Fuel Tank (tank had plenty of gas, and fuel gauge reads accurately)
00537 – Oxygen Sensor Control
Minimum Control Limit Exceeded
Condition:
Engine Intake Air Leak after Mass Air Flow Sensor-G-70
Leak in Exhaust System in front of 3 way catalytic converter
Heated Oxygen Sensor (HO2S)-G39-malfunctioning
Fuel System Pressure greater than 4 bar (58 psi) [This is
interesting, seems like I will throw this code all the time if I set
the Fuel Pressure to 4 Bar/58 psi, which is what I believe I’ve been
told is the Fuel Pressure for RS2’d cars. True?]
Symptom:
Rich Exhaust
Spark Plug Fouling
CO before 3 way catalytic converter greater than 3%
Repair:
Repair Leak
Check HO2S-G39
Check Fuel System Pressure
00561-Mixture Adjustment
Adaptation Limit (mul) exceeded
Condition:
Fuel System Pressure too low
Spark Plugs, ignition coil, ignition coil power output stage
malfunctioning
Symptom:
Reduced Fuel Economy (no kidding)
Sooty Exhaust (yeah, in spades)
Repair:
Fill Fuel Tank
Repair Leakage
Check Fuel System
Check Fuel System Pressure
Check G70 (Mass Air Flow Sensor) [We cleaned the OEM MAF with MAF
Cleaner, and we also installed a brand new RS2 MAF-we still had the
drastic engine cut-off]
On Oct 31, 2007, at 4:43 PM, Robert Myers wrote:
>
>
> OK, Manny, it has it's own POS for each coil (as do the 1.8t units
> also). This means that a failed OEM POS channel is bypassed and
> will have no effect. This eliminates the full-time miss at idle.
> Now, with this new system what symptoms are you seeing? A high
> boost cut-out which feels rather closely akin to hitting that
> proverbial brick wall? If that's what you're seeing look to
> something either leading to overboost or leading to a false signal
> confusing the ECU and causing it to "think" there is overboost.
> Now what this latter thing might be i have no idea.
>
> I'd still be looking for some fault condition associated with the
> wastegate or it's control functions.
>
> BTW, I bought one of the 034 1.8t conversions and installed it in a
> marathon 15 minute installation (tough job ;-)). In spite of the
> failures of some of the 1.8t coils I have had zero problems with
> mine. however, I keep a prepped spare coil in my trunk just in
> case. The conversion has worked superbly for me. No track time
> but I drive the car like I stole it most of the time.
>
> Bob
>
>
> At 04:28 PM 10/31/2007, you wrote:
>> Bob,
>>
>> No it is not a 1.8 coilpack system, it is a standalone system that
>> dispenses with the OEM POS's, these units have their own internal
>> drivers.
>>
>> http://www.034motorsport.com/product_info.php?
>> cPath=26&products_id=466
>>
>> -m
>>
>> ---- Original message ----
>> >Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:10:33 -0400
>> >From: Robert Myers <robert at s-cars.org>
>> >Subject: Re: [s-cars] Power Output Stages (POS) - Ignitors
>> >To: <manuelsanchez at starpower.net>
>> >
>> > What is this 034 DIS system you're using? Is it
>> > using the 1.8t coil pack conversion or something
>> > similar? If so it does not make use of the old POS
>> > units. That would square with a dropped cylinder
>> > with the OEM system and no dropped cylinder using
>> > the 034 stuff.
>> >
>> > At 01:04 PM 10/31/2007, you wrote:
>> >
>> > Bob,
>> >
>> > I'll keep looking down this path, but what seems
>> > strange is that I get this drastic cut off with
>> > the 034 DIS Coils, but not with the OEM Coilpack.
>> > With the OEM Coilpack I seem to drop a cylinder,
>> > but not with the 034 DIS System.
>> >
>> > -m
>> >
>> > ---- Original message ----
>> > >Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 09:19:12 -0400
>> > >From: Robert Myers <robert at s-cars.org>
>> > >Subject: Re: [s-cars] Power Output Stages (POS) -
>> > Ignitors
>> > >To: Manuel Sanchez <manuelsanchez at starpower.net>
>> > >
>> > > Manny,
>> > >
>> > > It still sounds to me like you are getting a
>> > boost
>> > > level higher than it is supposed to be and the
>> > ECU
>> > > is shutting things down in order to avoid
>> > damaging
>> > > the engine due to excessive boost. That
>> > information
>> > > gets to the ECU from the PT (or VMAP in your
>> > case).
>> > > The ECU uses this information to drive the
>> > WGFV to
>> > > control boost levels appropriate to the
>> > software
>> > > design. The s/w carries the maximum boost
>> > trigger
>> > > level hard coded into the s/w. There is some
>> > reason
>> > > why the WGFV is not properly controlling boost
>> > > levels. This could be a result of a number of
>> > > possibilities. These include 1. torn/split Wg
>> > > diaphragm, blocked WGFV to WG hose, and a
>> > faulty
>> > > WGFV plus probably several other more subtle
>> > causes.
>> > >
>> > > Your ignition flutter or miss at boost sounds
>> > like a
>> > > failing coil or a blown POS channel. If the
>> > miss
>> > > comes only under significant boost then I'd
>> > look to
>> > > a bad coil for the affected cylinder. If the
>> > miss
>> > > is full-time then the POS is likely at fault.
>> > I
>> > > have heard reports of a "weak POS causing a
>> > miss
>> > > under boost (like the coil would do) but I'm
>> > not
>> > > sure I'm convinced that this can happen. The
>> > POS is
>> > > just a power transistor and when these go down
>> > they
>> > > do so in a binary manner - either ON or OFF
>> > (alive
>> > > or dead).
>> > >
>> > > Bob
>> > >
>> > > At 08:59 AM 10/31/2007, you wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Fellow S-heads,
>> > >
>> > > I had heard that we can substitute the our
>> > era's
>> > > V6 POS's for the AAN
>> > > POS's, at approximately half the cost.
>> > >
>> > > 1. Has anyone successfully run the V6 POS's
>> > on the
>> > > AAN here?
>> > > 2. Has anyone successfully run them on an
>> > RS2 AAN?
>> > >
>> > > My continuing saga of trying to sort thru my
>> > power
>> > > problem has
>> > > resulted in a new (Oh joy) problem. I have
>> > the
>> > > distinction of having
>> > > 2 complete sets of new ignition components,
>> > an 034
>> > > DIS Coil System
>> > > and the OEM Coil System. I have not
>> > confirmed
>> > > completely if my
>> > > problem is fuel or spark yet, but neither
>> > seems to
>> > > be working for me.
>> > >
>> > > When I have the 034 DIS Coil system
>> > installed, I
>> > > am experiencing a
>> > > severe power cut-off at peak boost levels. I
>> > have
>> > > swapped my ECU with
>> > > a bone stock one, I have swapped chipsets in
>> > my
>> > > own ECU (I have
>> > > swapped the relative components as well such
>> > as
>> > > stock injectors with
>> > > the stock ecu) and this power cut off has
>> > occurred
>> > > on all 3 versions,
>> > > at 3 different boost levels, all coordinated
>> > with
>> > > the peak boost
>> > > level of the coordinating software
>> > (14-15psi, 25
>> > > psi and 27 psi).
>> > >
>> > > When I have run the stock Coil System (coils
>> > are
>> > > relatively new,
>> > > about a year old) very recently I have been
>> > > "lucky" to have a new
>> > > problem arise, I will drop a cylinder
>> > (confirmed
>> > > by disconnecting the
>> > > injector leads one at a time to isolate the
>> > > cylinder). The first time
>> > > this happened, I lost cylinder #5. At the
>> > time I
>> > > had the original OEM
>> > > AAN POS's. I swapped POS's, but
>> > unfortunately I
>> > > was not lucky enough
>> > > to win the "easy channel swap POS lottery".
>> > These
>> > > POS's have 126,000
>> > > miles. So I went out in the back yard and
>> > dug up
>> > > my wallet, it took
>> > > some time to find, as I have a whole lot of
>> > holes
>> > > in my backyard from
>> > > all the wallet burying I've been doing to
>> > try and
>> > > solve this problem.
>> > > I bought 2 brand new Beru V6 POS's (Part #
>> > > VWW075763 / 4A0905351)
>> > > from our vintage of V6 Audi's. I installed
>> > them
>> > > last weekend with the
>> > > heat sink paste and drove them sedately for
>> > about
>> > > 175 miles. After an
>> > > hour long drive yesterday, I decided to beat
>> > on
>> > > them to see if my
>> > > drastic power loss problem was resolved.
>> > About a
>> > > half dozen WOT 2nd
>> > > and 3rd gear redline pulls seemed to show
>> > success!
>> > > Well the Audi gods
>> > > quickly saw my glee and decided to pee all
>> > over my
>> > > party. I shut the
>> > > car down for about 15 minutes, when I
>> > restarted I
>> > > lost a cylinder,
>> > > this time it's Cylinder #2. I have been told
>> > > cylinder #2 and #5 are
>> > > run by different POS's.
>> > >
>> > > I have not determined if the lost cylinder
>> > is
>> > > because the coil is not
>> > > firing or if the injector is not firing, too
>> > > pissed to look at the
>> > > moment.
>> > >
>> > > Idea's?
>> > >
>> > > I have about 2 weeks until the VIR Driving
>> > School
>> > > Event to sort this
>> > > headache. This has beaten me down so much
>> > that I'm
>> > > almost sure I'm
>> > > not going to make it (which is really too
>> > bad as I
>> > > really look
>> > > forward to my bi-annual therapy session). So
>> > if
>> > > you wanted to be able
>> > > to go to this event and didn't get in, send
>> > me an
>> > > email and I'll put
>> > > you on my list of people to call if I can't
>> > get
>> > > this sorted out in
>> > > time for the event, at which time I'd try to
>> > > arrange for whomever to
>> > > buy my slot in the yellow group - cost is
>> > $345 for
>> > > event registration).
>> > >
>> > > Discouraged and in Audi Hell,
>> > >
>> > > Manny
>> > >
>> > > 95.5 UrS6 Avant (mostly RS2)
>> > >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > > S-CAR-List mailing list
>> > > S-CAR-List at audifans.com
>> > >
>> > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list
>> > >
>> > > --
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>> > 269.15.15/1101
>> > > - Release Date: 10/31/2007 10:06 AM
>> >
>> > --
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>>
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