[s-cars] UrS and 200 ball joint failures

[Fred Munro]

Mike;

IMO the biggest potential issue with the UrS ball joint is people reusing
the pinch bolt (always replace it) and with people wedging something in the
slot to pry it open to release the ball joint. The latter destroys the
strut, as it will never properly clamp the ball joint again. Unfortunately,
you don't know whether that has been done to your car by a
less-than-competent tech sometime in the past unless you carefully inspect
the slot for tool marks. I do recall a lister who had a newly-installed ball
joint pop out and eventually found tool marks in the slot on the strut. If
the ball joint itself is not loose, I don't think you have to worry about
failure on either the TRW or the Meyle arms. My experience with the Meyle
arms is that they wear faster - the ones I installed were shot after one
year. The local Audi tech told me TRW makes the OEM arms, and that's what I
used to replace the Meyles. They are still good after 4 years.

Sounds like a bad scene, Mike. Glad to see that you helped out, but that has
an emotional cost and I hope it passes quickly for you. Not helping out has
a higher cost, but that's paid in the future over the longer term.

As for Chrysler vehicles, I owned a '66 Dodge van and my wife's first car
was a '74 Scamp that she drove for 17 years. Both were great vehicles, but
Chrysler started going downhill in the '80s and the stuff they make now is
CRAP. Thanks for the heads-up on the Liberty; I haven't been paying much
attention since I don't plan on owning anything made by Chrysler.


HTH

Fred Munro
'97 S6


-----Original Message-----
From: s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com
[mailto:s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com]On Behalf Of mike claire
Sent: August 12, 2008 4:07 AM
To: LL - NY
Cc: John Lagnese; s-car-list; 200 20v List
Subject: Re: [s-cars] UrS and 200 ball joint failures


Well that's the thing, Larry.  I didn't get too specific this afternoon but
she died at the scene.

Here's a picture of the
vehicles<http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/misc?url=/misc/zoom1.p
bs&Site=NS&Date=20080811&Category=NEWSBLOG&ArtNo=830886011&Ref=AR>

That's the car's "good" side.  You should have seen the other side.

Whatever happened, she lost control in an instant.  From what I saw, I'm not
sure a different driver would have had a better result.  Within 2 seconds
she was pointed almost 90 degrees toward the opposite lane's guardrail on
the overpass, and probably still doing 50.  I believe before she hit the
guardrail she was t-boned by the car behind me, the Isuzu.  He must have
been doing 60.  I don't know how much he could have slowed down.

It was a very bad scene, frankly it looked like a movie set that was a
little overdone.  The Isuzu caught fire and we managed to put it out with an
extinguisher.  Good thing because they needed the jaws of life to get him
out later.  That Isuzu didn't collapse, he didn't lose his feet and he
wasn't pinned in.  But the doors wouldn't open.  He had compound fractures
in his lower extremities but I wasn't worried about him as long as the car
wasn't burning - everything becomes relative fast.

As I was tending to the Isuzu guy, another guy yelled to me that the Liberty
was on fire and we had to get her out now.  I hadn't been over there yet.  I
got a good look at the situation - moving her was a bad idea, and there was
no fire.  Just smoke, steam, and the risk of fire.  But no fire yet.

The details are something I'll have to live with.  It was her life, and what
happened ought to remain private out of respect for her.  I have never said
that about anything.


Audi content:  pinch bolts, crappy control arms, ball joints separating, tie
rod ends coming apart - this stuff happens to "the general public" when they
disregard warning signs, and don't maintain what they drive.  It scares the
crap out of me when I see it happening to listers.  95% of you guys are
smarter about this stuff than I am.

I just know one thing - my cars are tight and they don't clunk - ever.  They
pass inspection.  Am I good, or do I need to do more?


Man that Jeep Liberty's a beaut.  Google "jeep liberty front end failure"
and see what you get.  Upper and lower ball joint recalls, catastrophic
failure and injuries, 3 recalls starting in '02, and a recent one for
uppers.  Replaced ball joints have come apart after 18K miles.  I have a
friend who owns one and I'll talk to him tomorrow.  Do you know anybody with
a Liberty?




On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 10:38 PM, LL - NY <larrycleung at gmail.com> wrote:

> I hope the driver of the wreck is okay.
>
> On 8/11/08, John Lagnese <jlagnese at massed.net> wrote:
>
>> That is a terrible stretch on a terrible road!!
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: 200q20v-bounces at audifans.com [mailto:200q20v-bounces at audifans.com]
>> On
>> Behalf Of mike claire
>>
>> Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 9:24 PM
>> To: s-car-list; 200 20v List
>>
>> Subject: UrS and 200 ball joint failures
>>
>> Hey guys - I saw a bad accident today, and it gave me a lot to think
>> about.
>> Some of it is Audi related.
>>
>> The cops have my statement.  Basically what happened is this:  We were
>> each
>> going 60 in opposite directions.  If you could freeze the action as we
>> crossed each other, we were at an overpass expansion joint.  At that
>> millisecond, I heard heavy metallic pop, or a bang come from her car.  It
>> sounded unsprung, and it sounded like something she needed.  I glanced at
>> my
>> side mirror to catch a glimpse as she passed.  Short wheelbase, high
>> center
>> of gravity, I don't think anybody could have saved it, but she went down
>> swinging.
>>
>> A little more about the conditions, then the Audi content:  Rt 101 on the
>> Milford/Amherst NH line looks like an Interstate except it's one lane
each
>> way, no median.  It was 11:30 AM, the road was dry, it was bright with
>> high
>> cloud cover, and there were only 3 or 4 cars within sight.  She was
>> driving
>> a late model car at a normal speed.  Something happened, and in the count
>> of
>> 2 seconds it was over.  It's as random as it gets.
>>
>>
>>
>> AUDI CONTENT:
>> I have seen too many emails about sudden ball joint failures, and we've
>> been
>> lucky (as far was we know).  It has happened in the driveway, rolling
thru
>> a
>> parking lot, etc.  Somebody speculated that gyroscopic action holds a
>> failed
>> components together until the speed's too low.  I suppose it's
>> possible....but when I hit an expansion joint at 90 I don't want to
wonder
>> if that's what's holding my front-end together.
>>
>> Here's my question:  Is a clunk-free UrS/200 control arm/ball joint
>> definately safe?  There's a concensus that TRW's are good, and Meyle is
>> terrible.  I replaced the arms 2 years and 15K miles ago.  They might
have
>> been Meyle.
>>
>> Suppose they were Meyle, and suppose it passed a "real" inspection by an
>> indy who works on UrS's all the time.  Would you track it with those
arms?
>> If the car is heavy enough to snap something without warning during an
>> agressive maneuver, I'll change out parts next week (assuming TRW will
>> correct the risk).
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> 200q20v mailing list     http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> S-CAR-List mailing list
>> S-CAR-List at audifans.com
>> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list
>>
>
>


On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 10:38 PM, LL - NY <larrycleung at gmail.com> wrote:

> I hope the driver of the wreck is okay.
>
> On 8/11/08, John Lagnese <jlagnese at massed.net> wrote:
>
>> That is a terrible stretch on a terrible road!!
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: 200q20v-bounces at audifans.com [mailto:200q20v-bounces at audifans.com]
>> On
>> Behalf Of mike claire
>>
>> Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 9:24 PM
>> To: s-car-list; 200 20v List
>>
>> Subject: UrS and 200 ball joint failures
>>
>> Hey guys - I saw a bad accident today, and it gave me a lot to think
>> about.
>> Some of it is Audi related.
>>
>> The cops have my statement.  Basically what happened is this:  We were
>> each
>> going 60 in opposite directions.  If you could freeze the action as we
>> crossed each other, we were at an overpass expansion joint.  At that
>> millisecond, I heard heavy metallic pop, or a bang come from her car.  It
>> sounded unsprung, and it sounded like something she needed.  I glanced at
>> my
>> side mirror to catch a glimpse as she passed.  Short wheelbase, high
>> center
>> of gravity, I don't think anybody could have saved it, but she went down
>> swinging.
>>
>> A little more about the conditions, then the Audi content:  Rt 101 on the
>> Milford/Amherst NH line looks like an Interstate except it's one lane
each
>> way, no median.  It was 11:30 AM, the road was dry, it was bright with
>> high
>> cloud cover, and there were only 3 or 4 cars within sight.  She was
>> driving
>> a late model car at a normal speed.  Something happened, and in the count
>> of
>> 2 seconds it was over.  It's as random as it gets.
>>
>>
>>
>> AUDI CONTENT:
>> I have seen too many emails about sudden ball joint failures, and we've
>> been
>> lucky (as far was we know).  It has happened in the driveway, rolling
thru
>> a
>> parking lot, etc.  Somebody speculated that gyroscopic action holds a
>> failed
>> components together until the speed's too low.  I suppose it's
>> possible....but when I hit an expansion joint at 90 I don't want to
wonder
>> if that's what's holding my front-end together.
>>
>> Here's my question:  Is a clunk-free UrS/200 control arm/ball joint
>> definately safe?  There's a concensus that TRW's are good, and Meyle is
>> terrible.  I replaced the arms 2 years and 15K miles ago.  They might
have
>> been Meyle.
>>
>> Suppose they were Meyle, and suppose it passed a "real" inspection by an
>> indy who works on UrS's all the time.  Would you track it with those
arms?
>> If the car is heavy enough to snap something without warning during an
>> agressive maneuver, I'll change out parts next week (assuming TRW will
>> correct the risk).
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> 200q20v mailing list     http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> S-CAR-List mailing list
>> S-CAR-List at audifans.com
>> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list
>>
>
>
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