No subject

have been much more so in the more distant past, than in the present.  In
the ultra high performance category, particularly as it pertained to ice,
for a long time unless one were taking about studs, the Bridgestone Blizack
(used to be) LM-50, with a special winter ice rubber compound had the market
cornered for performance on ice.  However, the tire had a number of draw
backs.  The special rubber compound (very soft with lots of microscopic
voids that could/would work almost like little suction cups) made the tire
very "squirmy" on dry roads (which is what the Denver front range has 95+ %
of the time) made the tire less than ideal as an all season tire.  Further
the soft rubber compound would wear off in a relatively short period of
miles leaving one with a tire that "looked" very much the same, but
performed very differently.

Recently, I believe many of the other tire manufacturers have "bridged" the
Bridgestone special ice tire gap with high tech rubber compounds of their
own ~ from personal experience at the Steamboat/Bridgestone Winter HPDE
events the Nokian HAKA RSi is now able to give the Bridgestone equipped (I
guess the tires are now LM60's or something like that.)  Two years ago we
also had an Audi Press Vehicle RS4 show up fitted with some rather large 19"
Dunlop special winter service tires, I think these may have been Graspics,
which also held their own with the Blizack LM 50 & ? 60 equipped cars, and
with the Nokian RSi's.  The "regular" Michelin Pilot Alpin and Nokia Haka
1/2 etc. (non-RSi compound) while great deep, loose snow and mud tires were
actually awful on the ice.  While I've only driven on a studded version at
the Audi DE's in Seefeld, Austria and in Finland, I believe Michelin is now
also making a "studless" ice tire equivalent to the Bridgestone's in their
(in the US & Canada) Ice-X tire line.  FWLIW, I've no experience, good or
bad, with any of the Pirelli snow product.  

When I say "ice" I'm talking polished, NHL hockey arena or better SLIPPERY
ice.  Studded tire only type of ice.  I say this because, at least in the
Denver, and I suspect many other major urban areas with lots of traffic, one
frequently only sees "snow" on which more traditional snow tires can find
purchase for a brief time if the weather is very cold.  Here that snow is
usually polished down to a highly buffed surface.

Last, but not least, in attending a number of these events, I've been lucky
enough to have a chance to meet and talk with some of the manufacture tire
testers for Audi, Porsche and Kuhmo/Mitsubishi.  If you are really concerned
with winter tire safety & performance, (& for that matter if you've found
and are thinking of buying a "slightly used" older set of tires, it's my
understanding, much like performance racing or semi-racing (i.e. Toyo RA-!,
888's, Pilot Cup Sports, Pirelli Courso's, Hoosiers etc.), these tires have
a FINITE  shelf life as far as their performance characteristics are
concerned.  It depends a bit on how the tire has been stored (indoors in a
temperature stable environment, away from ozone producing sources is good),
but 3-4 years may be all the "special" features are good for, before
chemical changes in the rubber begin to take a major toll.

When the weather's bad, the tires are the last thing in the drive train
connecting you to the ground.  I don't know about all of you'se guys, but
while it's frustrating not to be able to get moving, it's downright
embarrassing (& generally expensive) not being able to get stopped  :-)     

PS ~ I understand the Goodyear "all round" winter performance tire is
offering a center ice band which is impregnated with volcanic pumice for ice
traction.

As PKrusky would say, all this is worth about what you've had to pay for it.
Cheers, happy winter driving :-)
MikeP
      

-----Original Message-----
From: s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com 
{snip}
Today's Topics:

   1. Re:  Snow tire shopping, blizzak vs Nokian vs? thoughts?
      (Calvin Craig)
{... more snipping}

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 21:52:40 -0700
From: "Calvin Craig" <calvinlc at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [s-cars] Snow tire shopping, blizzak vs Nokian vs?
	thoughts?
To: "Mark Turczyn" <mkturczyn at verizon.net>, "JC" <jc at j2c3.com>,	"'LL -
	NY'" <larrycleung at gmail.com>
Cc: 'Scar' <s-car-list at audifans.com>

In the past I definitely have been able to tell the difference between the V
and H rated tires.  The V's just have a stiffer sidewall.  While probably
not so noticeable on a little Honda Civic it will be noticeable, in my
opinion, on the front of a 3750 lb UrS.
--Calvin