[s-cars] Bilsteins and oil in the strut tower
Theodore Chen
tedebearp at yahoo.com
Fri Mar 14 23:15:56 PDT 2008
would you guys still recommend the bilsteins? i have yet to replace my stock shocks, and they have 156k miles on them. they're still ok, but it'd be nice to tighten up the handling.
-teddy
----- Original Message ----
From: Rich Assarabowski <konecc at snet.net>
To: George Verbryck <georgeverbryck at yahoo.com>; s-car-list at audifans.com
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 6:14:20 PM
Subject: Re: [s-cars] Bilsteins and oil in the strut tower
Many of us on this list have experienced this on their S-cars. The
Bilsteins for this car (either by design and/or poor manufacturing) are
prone to premature wear, which results in the shaft becoming loose and
developing a rattle. The quick and easy way to check this is to pull the
strut mount out of the car and extend the shock. You can do this without
removing the strut from the car, this is the same procedure as replacing the
struts without removing the springs.
When the shaft is extended, if your struts are worn you will feel a clunking
when you move the shaft sideways. It may seem like it may be just a loose
nut (check that first!), but more than likely it's the shaft that's
developed lateral play. I had my struts replaced under warranty and while I
was at it, had the new ones revalved (highly recommended). The new struts
were tight (no play) and the clunking was gone. Make sure the strut mount
rubber is not torn, which also frequently happens.
By the way, since I no longer own my S4, I have a custom-made tool to
install the Bilstein nuts (the ones with the two notches in them). You can
tighten them by inserting a pipe wrench through the spring, but the more
elegant way is to tighten them through the top so you can use a torque
wrench to snug them down. I made this from a length of stainless steel pipe
which fits over the strut nut, then welded two tabs to engage the slots in
the Bilstein nut. There's a nut welded on top for a torque wrench socket.
You tighten it from the top, then compress the strut, install the mounts and
you're done -- easy!
If anyone is interested contact me off list. I'll be away for two weeks
after Sunday but I'll be periodically checking my e-mail.
-- Rich A.
ex '93 Audi S4
Now '08 MS3 & '99 Miata
>Hi,
>
>I did mine with tape years ago and no noise so far. FWIW, I recall that
Koni recommended (30 years ago)filling up the air space in the strut with
oil.
>Their reasoning was that the oil would facilitate shock cooling. I would
think it would also help keep water out of the strut.
>
>mark near Chicago
>>What I did with mine was I wrapped the bottom of the Bisltein insert tube
with duct tape jsut enough to make it a tight fit to the housing to lessen
>>the play and vibration down there. So far it is quite.
On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Stott Hare wrote:
>>> My front Bilstein inserts would ingest enough water/leak enough oil
>>> whatever into the strut housing each winter that they would freeze
>>> up, giving teeth jarring pothole impacts until the fluid in the strut
>>> melted/slushed up.
>>>
>>> After my second annual warranty swap and complaining to Bilstein
>>> tech, they suggested drilling a small hole in the bottom of the strut
>>> housing to allow any ingested/leaked fluids to drain out. When I
>>> removed the dead inserts to return for warranty, I did have a
>>> significant amount of fluid pour out of the strut housing.
>>>
>>> Not sure if yours is a similar issue, and it happening when warm not
>>> cold doesn't seem to jive, but another data point for you to
>>> consider. Failing upper strut bearing?
>>>
>>> YMMV,
>>> Stott
>>>> Well, the pot holes are exceptionally bad this year in northern VT.
As a
>>>> result I'm experiencing some pretty jarring behaviour with my front
>>>> suspension.
>>>>
>>>> The victim, a 95.5 S6 avant, does have Bilstein Sports and H&R
springs.
>>>> Stiff enough to begin with.
>>>>
>>>> What I'm experiencing is a clunk in the LF suspension. It can be
>>>>>>> heard, but also felt through the dead pedal. Not only going over
>>>> rough spots on the road, but also when turning. Pulled the car into
>>>> the garage and everything appears to be in good shape, and tight.
>>>> Control arm bushings and ball joints look good. The last time I
>>>> experienced this, it was the the strut cap that attaches strut insert
>>>> to the strut itself had come loose (the one that's supplied with the
>>>> bilsteins). Not the case here, it's good and tight. Next thought was
>>>> the snapped spring issue I've been reading about with the H&R's.
>>>> They're fine too.
>>>>
>>>> Now here's the weird thing. It was around 40 degrees when I first
>>>> experienced this. Monday and yesterday it was significantly colder
>>>> (between 0-20 degrees), and the car rides fine! Now again this
>>>> morning at 30 degrees it's back. WTF? Any ideas - could this be a
>>>> bad shock and would the failure be temperature sensitive?
>>>>
>>>> Any insight would be appreciated!
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>> 95.5 S6A
>>>> 99 A6A
**************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money &
Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 19:45:15 +0000
From: yo-cello at comcast.net
Subject: Re: [s-cars] Odd suspension behavior
To: "Alvin Labonite" , stott at gwi.net
Cc: s-car-list at audifans.com
Message-ID:
<031220081945.24119.47D832CB0006146F00005E3722155786740104040A0CD30197 at comca
st.net>
Content-Type: text/plain
Alvin,
Based on the movement I"m seeing in the strut it's worth taking a look.
Others have suggested similar things. It appears I'll have to pull the
strut insert anyway.
Thanks,
Paul
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Alvin Labonite"
What I did with mine was I wrapped the bottom of the Bisltein insert tube
with duct tape jsut enough to make it a tight fit to the housing to lessen
the play and vibration down there. So far it is quite.
On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Stott Hare wrote:
My front Bilstein inserts would ingest enough water/leak enough oil whatever
into the strut housing each winter that they would freeze up, giving teeth
jarring pothole impacts until the fluid in the strut melted/slushed up.
After my second annual warranty swap and complaining to Bilstein tech, they
suggested drilling a small hole in the bottom of the strut housing to allow
any ingested/leaked fluids to drain out. When I removed the dead inserts to
return for warranty, I did have a significant amount of fluid pour out of
the strut housing.
Not sure if yours is a similar issue, and it happening when warm not cold
doesn't seem to jive, but another data point for you to consider. Failing
upper strut bearing?
YMMV,
Stott
-----Original Message-----
From: s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com
[mailto:s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com] On Behalf Of yo-cello at comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 12:10 PM
To: s-car-list at audifans.com
Subject: [s-cars] Odd suspension behaviour
Well, the pot holes are exceptionally bad this year in northern VT. As a
result I'm experiencing some pretty jarring behaviour with my front
suspension.
The victim, a 95.5 S6 avant, does have Bilstein Sports and H&R springs.
Stiff enough to begin with.
What I'm experiencing is a clunk in the LF suspension. It can be heard, but
also felt through the dead pedal. Not only going over rough spots on the
road, but also when turning. Pulled the car into the garage and everything
appears to be in good shape, and tight. Control arm bushings and ball
joints look good. The last time I experienced this, it was the the strut
cap that attaches strut insert to the strut itself had come loose (the one
that's supplied with the bilsteins). Not the case here, it's good and
tight. Next thought was the snapped spring issue I've been reading about
with the H&R's. They're fine too.
Now here's the weird thing. It was around 40 degrees when I first
experienced this. Monday and yesterday it was significantly colder (between
0-20 degrees), and the car rides fine! Now again this morning at 30 degrees
it's back. WTF? Any ideas - could this be a bad shock and would the
failure be temperature sensitive?
Any insight would be appreciated!
Paul
95.5 S6A
99 A6A
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:50:33 -0500
From: David Kase
Subject: Re: [s-cars] Odd suspension behavior
To: Mtgadbois at aol.com
Cc: s-car-list at audifans.com
Message-ID: <47D84219.7080900 at pdqlocks.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Some companies recommend filling the void with anti-freeze. I always
use motor oil.
David Kase
Mtgadbois at aol.com wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I did mine with tape years ago and no noise so far. FWIW, I recall that
> Koni recommended (30 years ago)filling up the air space in the strut with
oil.
> Their reasoning was that the oil would facilitate shock cooling. I would
> think it would also help keep water out of the strut.
>
> mark near Chicago
>
> Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:55:49 -0700
> From: "Alvin Labonite"
> Subject: Re: [s-cars] Odd suspension behavior
> To: stott at gwi.net
> Cc: s-car-list at audifans.com
> Message-ID:
> <906bff800803121055uc6586bbm71d5457ccf96e97a at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> What I did with mine was I wrapped the bottom of the Bisltein insert tube
> with duct tape jsut enough to make it a tight fit to the housing to
lessen
> the play and vibration down there. So far it is quite.
>
> On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Stott Hare wrote:
>
>
>> My front Bilstein inserts would ingest enough water/leak enough oil
>> whatever
>> into the strut housing each winter that they would freeze up, giving
teeth
>> jarring pothole impacts until the fluid in the strut melted/slushed up.
>>
>> After my second annual warranty swap and complaining to Bilstein tech,
>> they
>> suggested drilling a small hole in the bottom of the strut housing to
>> allow
>> any ingested/leaked fluids to drain out. When I removed the dead
inserts
>> to
>> return for warranty, I did have a significant amount of fluid pour out
of
>> the strut housing.
>>
>> Not sure if yours is a similar issue, and it happening when warm not
cold
>> doesn't seem to jive, but another data point for you to consider.
Failing
>> upper strut bearing?
>>
>> YMMV,
>> Stott
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com
>> [mailto:s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com] On Behalf Of
yo-cello at comcast.net
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 12:10 PM
>> To: s-car-list at audifans.com
>> Subject: [s-cars] Odd suspension behaviour
>>
>> Well, the pot holes are exceptionally bad this year in northern VT. As
a
>> result I'm experiencing some pretty jarring behaviour with my front
>> suspension.
>>
>> The victim, a 95.5 S6 avant, does have Bilstein Sports and H&R springs.
>> Stiff enough to begin with.
>>
>> What I'm experiencing is a clunk in the LF suspension. It can be heard,
>> but
>> also felt through the dead pedal. Not only going over rough spots on the
>> road, but also when turning. Pulled the car into the garage and
>> everything
>> appears to be in good shape, and tight. Control arm bushings and ball
>> joints look good. The last time I experienced this, it was the the
strut
>> cap that attaches strut insert to the strut itself had come loose (the
one
>> that's supplied with the bilsteins). Not the case here, it's good and
>> tight. Next thought was the snapped spring issue I've been reading about
>> with the H&R's. They're fine too.
>>
>> Now here's the weird thing. It was around 40 degrees when I first
>> experienced this. Monday and yesterday it was significantly colder
>> (between
>> 0-20 degrees), and the car rides fine! Now again this morning at 30
>> degrees
>> it's back. WTF? Any ideas - could this be a bad shock and would the
>> failure be temperature sensitive?
>>
>> Any insight would be appreciated!
>>
>> Paul
>> 95.5 S6A
>> 99 A6A
>>
>
>
>
>
> **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money &
> Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)
> _______________________________________________
> S-CAR-List mailing list
> S-CAR-List at audifans.com
> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 20:45:09 -0400
From: "matt ludwig."
Subject: Re: [s-cars] Odd suspension behavior
To: David Kase
Cc: "Mtgadbois at aol.com" , //Scar list //Scar
Message-ID: <6F92A5B3-088E-4E52-8E53-E49B430FC3BE at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
It makes you wonder why there is a 'void' to begin with, eh?
For the record, I have the same issue going on and hve, for over a
year....
Sincerely,
matt ludwig.
On Mar 12, 2008, at 4:50 PM, David Kase wrote:
> Some companies recommend filling the void with anti-freeze. I always
> use motor oil.
>
> David Kase
>
>
>
> Mtgadbois at aol.com wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I did mine with tape years ago and no noise so far. FWIW, I
>> recall that
>> Koni recommended (30 years ago)filling up the air space in the
>> strut with oil.
>> Their reasoning was that the oil would facilitate shock cooling.
>> I would
>> think it would also help keep water out of the strut.
>>
>> mark near Chicago
>>
>> Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:55:49 -0700
>> From: "Alvin Labonite"
>> Subject: Re: [s-cars] Odd suspension behavior
>> To: stott at gwi.net
>> Cc: s-car-list at audifans.com
>> Message-ID:
>> <906bff800803121055uc6586bbm71d5457ccf96e97a at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> What I did with mine was I wrapped the bottom of the Bisltein
>> insert tube
>> with duct tape jsut enough to make it a tight fit to the housing
>> to lessen
>> the play and vibration down there. So far it is quite.
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Stott Hare wrote:
>>
>>
>>> My front Bilstein inserts would ingest enough water/leak enough oil
>>> whatever
>>> into the strut housing each winter that they would freeze up,
>>> giving teeth
>>> jarring pothole impacts until the fluid in the strut melted/
>>> slushed up.
>>>
>>> After my second annual warranty swap and complaining to Bilstein
>>> tech,
>>> they
>>> suggested drilling a small hole in the bottom of the strut
>>> housing to
>>> allow
>>> any ingested/leaked fluids to drain out. When I removed the dead
>>> inserts
>>> to
>>> return for warranty, I did have a significant amount of fluid
>>> pour out of
>>> the strut housing.
>>>
>>> Not sure if yours is a similar issue, and it happening when warm
>>> not cold
>>> doesn't seem to jive, but another data point for you to
>>> consider. Failing
>>> upper strut bearing?
>>>
>>> YMMV,
>>> Stott
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com
>>> [mailto:s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com] On Behalf Of
yo-cello at comcast.net
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 12:10 PM
>>> To: s-car-list at audifans.com
>>> Subject: [s-cars] Odd suspension behaviour
>>>
>>> Well, the pot holes are exceptionally bad this year in northern
>>> VT. As a
>>> result I'm experiencing some pretty jarring behaviour with my front
>>> suspension.
>>>
>>> The victim, a 95.5 S6 avant, does have Bilstein Sports and H&R
>>> springs.
>>> Stiff enough to begin with.
>>>
>>> What I'm experiencing is a clunk in the LF suspension. It can be
>>> heard,
>>> but
>>> also felt through the dead pedal. Not only going over rough spots
>>> on the
>>> road, but also when turning. Pulled the car into the garage and
>>> everything
>>> appears to be in good shape, and tight. Control arm bushings and
>>> ball
>>> joints look good. The last time I experienced this, it was the
>>> the strut
>>> cap that attaches strut insert to the strut itself had come loose
>>> (the one
>>> that's supplied with the bilsteins). Not the case here, it's
>>> good and
>>> tight. Next thought was the snapped spring issue I've been
>>> reading about
>>> with the H&R's. They're fine too.
>>>
>>> Now here's the weird thing. It was around 40 degrees when I first
>>> experienced this. Monday and yesterday it was significantly colder
>>> (between
>>> 0-20 degrees), and the car rides fine! Now again this morning at
>>> 30
>>> degrees
>>> it's back. WTF? Any ideas - could this be a bad shock and
>>> would the
>>> failure be temperature sensitive?
>>>
>>> Any insight would be appreciated!
>>>
>>> Paul
>>> 95.5 S6A
>>> 99 A6A
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL
>> Money &
>> Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)
>> _______________________________________________
>> S-CAR-List mailing list
>> S-CAR-List at audifans.com
>> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list
>>
> _______________________________________________
> S-CAR-List mailing list
> S-CAR-List at audifans.com
> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 19:05:31 -0600
From: K Hayes
Subject: Re: [s-cars] Odd suspension behaviour
To: yo-cello at comcast.net
Cc: s-car-list at audifans.com
Message-ID: <20ACCDD5-C3E4-4D91-AE7E-3C7462E41D24 at mac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
So I had a really unusual failure with my bilsteins on my 97S6. They
were stock, not the sports, but I had clunking that I could not
trace. The front end seemed tight and normal. Then on a nice warm
day in November just before I was planning to take a long turkey day
trip I hit a normal bump in the road that lightened up the front end
a bit and the front strut broke. The top bolt that comes up through
the front strut tower sheered off leaving the nut and some of that
bolt under the dust cap. It was my front left that was the problem
and when it let go it pulled me violently into oncoming traffic on a
two lane road. I managed to get the car right by turning the
steering wheel 90 degrees to the right. Thankfully, no one was hurt,
but I am leery of clunking and bilsteins now. What I don't know is
if the shaft had already sheered off and the bump moved the strut
enough for the rest to happen.
I know this is an unusual failure, but it's possible.
Kenny Hayes
Fort Collins, CO
On Mar 12, 2008, at 10:10 AM, yo-cello at comcast.net wrote:
> Well, the pot holes are exceptionally bad this year in northern
> VT. As a result I'm experiencing some pretty jarring behaviour
> with my front suspension.
>
> The victim, a 95.5 S6 avant, does have Bilstein Sports and H&R
> springs. Stiff enough to begin with.
>
> What I'm experiencing is a clunk in the LF suspension. It can be
> heard, but also felt through the dead pedal. Not only going over
> rough spots on the road, but also when turning. Pulled the car
> into the garage and everything appears to be in good shape, and
> tight. Control arm bushings and ball joints look good. The last
> time I experienced this, it was the the strut cap that attaches
> strut insert to the strut itself had come loose (the one that's
> supplied with the bilsteins). Not the case here, it's good and
> tight. Next thought was the snapped spring issue I've been reading
> about with the H&R's. They're fine too.
>
> Now here's the weird thing. It was around 40 degrees when I first
> experienced this. Monday and yesterday it was significantly colder
> (between 0-20 degrees), and the car rides fine! Now again this
> morning at 30 degrees it's back. WTF? Any ideas - could this be a
> bad shock and would the failure be temperature sensitive?
>
> Any insight would be appreciated!
>
> Paul
> 95.5 S6A
> 99 A6A
> _______________________________________________
> S-CAR-List mailing list
> S-CAR-List at audifans.com
> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 01:12:53 +0000
From: yo-cello at comcast.net
Subject: Re: [s-cars] Odd suspension behaviour
To: K Hayes
Cc: s-car-list at audifans.com
Message-ID:
<031320080112.28645.47D87F9500014DD100006FE522155751140104040A0CD30197 at comca
st.net>
Content-Type: text/plain
=== message truncated ===
---------------------------------
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