[s-cars] Bilsteins and oil in the strut tower

[Rit bellis]

My bilsteins and H&R's are holding up well after about 25k.  I have moved from a very rural area to the Puget Sound area, and have discovered that the lowered front will not clear parking curbs, which means pay attention or lose the front bumper cover.  If I had it to do over again, I'd shoot for about 1/2 inch more clearance in the front. > To: tedebearp at yahoo.com; s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com; konecc at snet.net; georgeverbryck at yahoo.com; s-car-list at audifans.com> From: theringmeister at triad.rr.com> Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 13:19:29 +0000> Subject: Re: [s-cars] Bilsteins and oil in the strut tower> > I have the sports on my 92 along with the stock 92 springs and they really are nice. They've only been on there since Nov, about 5K miles, but the car is really fun to drive now. Firm, but not stiff save for some of the larger areas of rough pavement. We don't have many potholes down here so I can't really add much in the way of first-hand experience there. > > > Wylie Bean> 90 cq> 91 90q20v> 92 UrS4> 01 allroad> > -----Original Message-----> From: Theodore Chen <tedebearp at yahoo.com>> > Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 23:15:56 > To:Rich Assarabowski <konecc at snet.net>,George Verbryck <georgeverbryck at yahoo.com>, s-car-list at audifans.com> Subject: Re: [s-cars] Bilsteins and oil in the strut tower> > > would you guys still recommend the bilsteins? i have yet to replace my stock shocks, and they have 156k miles on them. they're still ok, but it'd be nice to tighten up the handling.> > -teddy> > ----- Original Message ----> From: Rich Assarabowski <konecc at snet.net>> To: George Verbryck <georgeverbryck at yahoo.com>; s-car-list at audifans.com> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 6:14:20 PM> Subject: Re: [s-cars] Bilsteins and oil in the strut tower> > Many of us on this list have experienced this on their S-cars. The> Bilsteins for this car (either by design and/or poor manufacturing) are> prone to premature wear, which results in the shaft becoming loose and> developing a rattle. The quick and easy way to check this is to pull the> strut mount out of the car and extend the shock. You can do this without> removing the strut from the car, this is the same procedure as replacing the> struts without removing the springs. > > When the shaft is extended, if your struts are worn you will feel a clunking> when you move the shaft sideways. It may seem like it may be just a loose> nut (check that first!), but more than likely it's the shaft that's> developed lateral play. I had my struts replaced under warranty and while I> was at it, had the new ones revalved (highly recommended). The new struts> were tight (no play) and the clunking was gone. Make sure the strut mount> rubber is not torn, which also frequently happens.> > By the way, since I no longer own my S4, I have a custom-made tool to> install the Bilstein nuts (the ones with the two notches in them). You can> tighten them by inserting a pipe wrench through the spring, but the more> elegant way is to tighten them through the top so you can use a torque> wrench to snug them down. I made this from a length of stainless steel pipe> which fits over the strut nut, then welded two tabs to engage the slots in> the Bilstein nut. There's a nut welded on top for a torque wrench socket.> You tighten it from the top, then compress the strut, install the mounts and> you're done -- easy!> > If anyone is interested contact me off list. I'll be away for two weeks> after Sunday but I'll be periodically checking my e-mail.> > -- Rich A.> ex '93 Audi S4> Now '08 MS3 & '99 Miata> > > >Hi,> > > >I did mine with tape years ago and no noise so far. FWIW, I recall that> Koni recommended (30 years ago)filling up the air space in the strut with> oil. > >Their reasoning was that the oil would facilitate shock cooling. I would> think it would also help keep water out of the strut. > > > >mark near Chicago> > >>What I did with mine was I wrapped the bottom of the Bisltein insert tube> with duct tape jsut enough to make it a tight fit to the housing to lessen> >>the play and vibration down there. So far it is quite.> > On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Stott Hare wrote:> > >>> My front Bilstein inserts would ingest enough water/leak enough oil > >>> whatever into the strut housing each winter that they would freeze > >>> up, giving teeth jarring pothole impacts until the fluid in the strut > >>> melted/slushed up.> >>>> >>> After my second annual warranty swap and complaining to Bilstein > >>> tech, they suggested drilling a small hole in the bottom of the strut > >>> housing to allow any ingested/leaked fluids to drain out. When I > >>> removed the dead inserts to return for warranty, I did have a > >>> significant amount of fluid pour out of the strut housing.> >>>> >>> Not sure if yours is a similar issue, and it happening when warm not > >>> cold doesn't seem to jive, but another data point for you to > >>> consider. Failing upper strut bearing?> >>>> >>> YMMV,> >>> Stott> > >>>> Well, the pot holes are exceptionally bad this year in northern VT.> As a> >>>> result I'm experiencing some pretty jarring behaviour with my front > >>>> suspension.> >>>>> >>>> The victim, a 95.5 S6 avant, does have Bilstein Sports and H&R> springs.> >>>> Stiff enough to begin with.> >>>>> >>>> What I'm experiencing is a clunk in the LF suspension. It can be > >>>>>>> heard, but also felt through the dead pedal. Not only going over > >>>> rough spots on the road, but also when turning. Pulled the car into > >>>> the garage and everything appears to be in good shape, and tight. > >>>> Control arm bushings and ball joints look good. The last time I > >>>> experienced this, it was the the strut cap that attaches strut insert > >>>> to the strut itself had come loose (the one that's supplied with the > >>>> bilsteins). Not the case here, it's good and tight. Next thought was > >>>> the snapped spring issue I've been reading about with the H&R's. > >>>> They're fine too.> >>>>> >>>> Now here's the weird thing. It was around 40 degrees when I first > >>>> experienced this. Monday and yesterday it was significantly colder > >>>> (between 0-20 degrees), and the car rides fine! Now again this > >>>> morning at 30 degrees it's back. WTF? Any ideas - could this be a > >>>> bad shock and would the failure be temperature sensitive?> >>>>> >>>> Any insight would be appreciated!> >>>>> >>>> Paul> >>>> 95.5 S6A> >>>> 99 A6A> > > > > **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & > Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)> > > ------------------------------> > Message: 2> Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 19:45:15 +0000> From: yo-cello at comcast.net> Subject: Re: [s-cars] Odd suspension behavior> To: "Alvin Labonite" , stott at gwi.net> Cc: s-car-list at audifans.com> Message-ID:> > <031220081945.24119.47D832CB0006146F00005E3722155786740104040A0CD30197 at comca> st.net>> > Content-Type: text/plain> > Alvin,> Based on the movement I"m seeing in the strut it's worth taking a look.> Others have suggested similar things. It appears I'll have to pull the> strut insert anyway.> > Thanks,> Paul> > -------------- Original message --------------> From: "Alvin Labonite" > What I did with mine was I wrapped the bottom of the Bisltein insert tube> with duct tape jsut enough to make it a tight fit to the housing to lessen> the play and vibration down there. So far it is quite.> > > On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Stott Hare wrote:> > My front Bilstein inserts would ingest enough water/leak enough oil whatever> into the strut housing each winter that they would freeze up, giving teeth> jarring pothole impacts until the fluid in the strut melted/slushed up.> > After my second annual warranty swap and complaining to Bilstein tech, they> suggested drilling a small hole in the bottom of the strut housing to allow> any ingested/leaked fluids to drain out. When I removed the dead inserts to> return for warranty, I did have a significant amount of fluid pour out of> the strut housing.> > Not sure if yours is a similar issue, and it happening when warm not cold> doesn't seem to jive, but another data point for you to consider. Failing> upper strut bearing?> > YMMV,> Stott> > -----Original Message-----> From: s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com> [mailto:s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com] On Behalf Of yo-cello at comcast.net> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 12:10 PM> To: s-car-list at audifans.com> Subject: [s-cars] Odd suspension behaviour> > Well, the pot holes are exceptionally bad this year in northern VT. As a> result I'm experiencing some pretty jarring behaviour with my front> suspension.> > The victim, a 95.5 S6 avant, does have Bilstein Sports and H&R springs.> Stiff enough to begin with.> > What I'm experiencing is a clunk in the LF suspension. It can be heard, but> also felt through the dead pedal. Not only going over rough spots on the> road, but also when turning. Pulled the car into the garage and everything> appears to be in good shape, and tight. Control arm bushings and ball> joints look good. The last time I experienced this, it was the the strut> cap that attaches strut insert to the strut itself had come loose (the one> that's supplied with the bilsteins). Not the case here, it's good and> tight. Next thought was the snapped spring issue I've been reading about> with the H&R's. They're fine too.> > Now here's the weird thing. It was around 40 degrees when I first> experienced this. Monday and yesterday it was significantly colder (between> 0-20 degrees), and the car rides fine! Now again this morning at 30 degrees> it's back. WTF? Any ideas - could this be a bad shock and would the> failure be temperature sensitive?> > Any insight would be appreciated!> > Paul> 95.5 S6A> 99 A6A> _______________________________________________> S-CAR-List mailing list> S-CAR-List at audifans.com> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list> > > _______________________________________________> S-CAR-List mailing list> S-CAR-List at audifans.com> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list> > ------------------------------> > Message: 3> Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:50:33 -0500> From: David Kase > Subject: Re: [s-cars] Odd suspension behavior> To: Mtgadbois at aol.com> Cc: s-car-list at audifans.com> Message-ID: <47D84219.7080900 at pdqlocks.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed> > Some companies recommend filling the void with anti-freeze. I always > use motor oil. > > David Kase> > > > Mtgadbois at aol.com wrote:> > Hi,> > > > I did mine with tape years ago and no noise so far. FWIW, I recall that > > Koni recommended (30 years ago)filling up the air space in the strut with> oil. > > Their reasoning was that the oil would facilitate shock cooling. I would> > > think it would also help keep water out of the strut. > > > > mark near Chicago> >> > Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:55:49 -0700> > From: "Alvin Labonite" > > Subject: Re: [s-cars] Odd suspension behavior> > To: stott at gwi.net> > Cc: s-car-list at audifans.com> > Message-ID:> > <906bff800803121055uc6586bbm71d5457ccf96e97a at mail.gmail.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1> >> > What I did with mine was I wrapped the bottom of the Bisltein insert tube> > with duct tape jsut enough to make it a tight fit to the housing to> lessen> > the play and vibration down there. So far it is quite.> >> > On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Stott Hare wrote:> >> > > >> My front Bilstein inserts would ingest enough water/leak enough oil> >> whatever> >> into the strut housing each winter that they would freeze up, giving> teeth> >> jarring pothole impacts until the fluid in the strut melted/slushed up.> >>> >> After my second annual warranty swap and complaining to Bilstein tech,> >> they> >> suggested drilling a small hole in the bottom of the strut housing to> >> allow> >> any ingested/leaked fluids to drain out. When I removed the dead> inserts> >> to> >> return for warranty, I did have a significant amount of fluid pour out> of> >> the strut housing.> >>> >> Not sure if yours is a similar issue, and it happening when warm not> cold> >> doesn't seem to jive, but another data point for you to consider.> Failing> >> upper strut bearing?> >>> >> YMMV,> >> Stott> >>> >> -----Original Message-----> >> From: s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com> >> [mailto:s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com] On Behalf Of> yo-cello at comcast.net> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 12:10 PM> >> To: s-car-list at audifans.com> >> Subject: [s-cars] Odd suspension behaviour> >>> >> Well, the pot holes are exceptionally bad this year in northern VT. As> a> >> result I'm experiencing some pretty jarring behaviour with my front> >> suspension.> >>> >> The victim, a 95.5 S6 avant, does have Bilstein Sports and H&R springs.> >> Stiff enough to begin with.> >>> >> What I'm experiencing is a clunk in the LF suspension. It can be heard,> >> but> >> also felt through the dead pedal. Not only going over rough spots on the> >> road, but also when turning. Pulled the car into the garage and> >> everything> >> appears to be in good shape, and tight. Control arm bushings and ball> >> joints look good. The last time I experienced this, it was the the> strut> >> cap that attaches strut insert to the strut itself had come loose (the> one> >> that's supplied with the bilsteins). Not the case here, it's good and> >> tight. Next thought was the snapped spring issue I've been reading about> >> with the H&R's. They're fine too.> >>> >> Now here's the weird thing. It was around 40 degrees when I first> >> experienced this. Monday and yesterday it was significantly colder> >> (between> >> 0-20 degrees), and the car rides fine! Now again this morning at 30> >> degrees> >> it's back. WTF? Any ideas - could this be a bad shock and would the> >> failure be temperature sensitive?> >>> >> Any insight would be appreciated!> >>> >> Paul> >> 95.5 S6A> >> 99 A6A> >> > >> >> >> >> > **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & > > Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)> > _______________________________________________> > S-CAR-List mailing list> > S-CAR-List at audifans.com> > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list> > > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 4> Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 20:45:09 -0400> From: "matt ludwig." > Subject: Re: [s-cars] Odd suspension behavior> To: David Kase > Cc: "Mtgadbois at aol.com" , //Scar list //Scar> > Message-ID: <6F92A5B3-088E-4E52-8E53-E49B430FC3BE at gmail.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes> > It makes you wonder why there is a 'void' to begin with, eh?> > For the record, I have the same issue going on and hve, for over a > year....> > Sincerely,> > > matt ludwig.> > > > On Mar 12, 2008, at 4:50 PM, David Kase wrote:> > > Some companies recommend filling the void with anti-freeze. I always> > use motor oil.> >> > David Kase> >> >> >> > Mtgadbois at aol.com wrote:> >> Hi,> >>> >> I did mine with tape years ago and no noise so far. FWIW, I > >> recall that> >> Koni recommended (30 years ago)filling up the air space in the > >> strut with oil.> >> Their reasoning was that the oil would facilitate shock cooling. > >> I would> >> think it would also help keep water out of the strut.> >>> >> mark near Chicago> >>> >> Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:55:49 -0700> >> From: "Alvin Labonite" > >> Subject: Re: [s-cars] Odd suspension behavior> >> To: stott at gwi.net> >> Cc: s-car-list at audifans.com> >> Message-ID:> >> <906bff800803121055uc6586bbm71d5457ccf96e97a at mail.gmail.com>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1> >>> >> What I did with mine was I wrapped the bottom of the Bisltein > >> insert tube> >> with duct tape jsut enough to make it a tight fit to the housing > >> to lessen> >> the play and vibration down there. So far it is quite.> >>> >> On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Stott Hare wrote:> >>> >>> >>> My front Bilstein inserts would ingest enough water/leak enough oil> >>> whatever> >>> into the strut housing each winter that they would freeze up, > >>> giving teeth> >>> jarring pothole impacts until the fluid in the strut melted/ > >>> slushed up.> >>>> >>> After my second annual warranty swap and complaining to Bilstein > >>> tech,> >>> they> >>> suggested drilling a small hole in the bottom of the strut > >>> housing to> >>> allow> >>> any ingested/leaked fluids to drain out. When I removed the dead > >>> inserts> >>> to> >>> return for warranty, I did have a significant amount of fluid > >>> pour out of> >>> the strut housing.> >>>> >>> Not sure if yours is a similar issue, and it happening when warm > >>> not cold> >>> doesn't seem to jive, but another data point for you to > >>> consider. Failing> >>> upper strut bearing?> >>>> >>> YMMV,> >>> Stott> >>>> >>> -----Original Message-----> >>> From: s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com> >>> [mailto:s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com] On Behalf Of> yo-cello at comcast.net> >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 12:10 PM> >>> To: s-car-list at audifans.com> >>> Subject: [s-cars] Odd suspension behaviour> >>>> >>> Well, the pot holes are exceptionally bad this year in northern > >>> VT. As a> >>> result I'm experiencing some pretty jarring behaviour with my front> >>> suspension.> >>>> >>> The victim, a 95.5 S6 avant, does have Bilstein Sports and H&R > >>> springs.> >>> Stiff enough to begin with.> >>>> >>> What I'm experiencing is a clunk in the LF suspension. It can be > >>> heard,> >>> but> >>> also felt through the dead pedal. Not only going over rough spots > >>> on the> >>> road, but also when turning. Pulled the car into the garage and> >>> everything> >>> appears to be in good shape, and tight. Control arm bushings and > >>> ball> >>> joints look good. The last time I experienced this, it was the > >>> the strut> >>> cap that attaches strut insert to the strut itself had come loose > >>> (the one> >>> that's supplied with the bilsteins). Not the case here, it's > >>> good and> >>> tight. Next thought was the snapped spring issue I've been > >>> reading about> >>> with the H&R's. They're fine too.> >>>> >>> Now here's the weird thing. It was around 40 degrees when I first> >>> experienced this. Monday and yesterday it was significantly colder> >>> (between> >>> 0-20 degrees), and the car rides fine! Now again this morning at > >>> 30> >>> degrees> >>> it's back. WTF? Any ideas - could this be a bad shock and > >>> would the> >>> failure be temperature sensitive?> >>>> >>> Any insight would be appreciated!> >>>> >>> Paul> >>> 95.5 S6A> >>> 99 A6A> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL > >> Money &> >> Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)> >> _______________________________________________> >> S-CAR-List mailing list> >> S-CAR-List at audifans.com> >> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list> >>> > _______________________________________________> > S-CAR-List mailing list> > S-CAR-List at audifans.com> > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list> > > ------------------------------> > Message: 5> Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 19:05:31 -0600> From: K Hayes > Subject: Re: [s-cars] Odd suspension behaviour> To: yo-cello at comcast.net> Cc: s-car-list at audifans.com> Message-ID: <20ACCDD5-C3E4-4D91-AE7E-3C7462E41D24 at mac.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed> > So I had a really unusual failure with my bilsteins on my 97S6. They > were stock, not the sports, but I had clunking that I could not > trace. The front end seemed tight and normal. Then on a nice warm > day in November just before I was planning to take a long turkey day > trip I hit a normal bump in the road that lightened up the front end > a bit and the front strut broke. The top bolt that comes up through > the front strut tower sheered off leaving the nut and some of that > bolt under the dust cap. It was my front left that was the problem > and when it let go it pulled me violently into oncoming traffic on a > two lane road. I managed to get the car right by turning the > steering wheel 90 degrees to the right. Thankfully, no one was hurt, > but I am leery of clunking and bilsteins now. What I don't know is > if the shaft had already sheered off and the bump moved the strut > enough for the rest to happen.> > I know this is an unusual failure, but it's possible.> > Kenny Hayes> Fort Collins, CO> > > On Mar 12, 2008, at 10:10 AM, yo-cello at comcast.net wrote:> > > Well, the pot holes are exceptionally bad this year in northern > > VT. As a result I'm experiencing some pretty jarring behaviour > > with my front suspension.> >> > The victim, a 95.5 S6 avant, does have Bilstein Sports and H&R > > springs. Stiff enough to begin with.> >> > What I'm experiencing is a clunk in the LF suspension. It can be > > heard, but also felt through the dead pedal. Not only going over > > rough spots on the road, but also when turning. Pulled the car > > into the garage and everything appears to be in good shape, and > > tight. Control arm bushings and ball joints look good. The last > > time I experienced this, it was the the strut cap that attaches > > strut insert to the strut itself had come loose (the one that's > > supplied with the bilsteins). Not the case here, it's good and > > tight. Next thought was the snapped spring issue I've been reading > > about with the H&R's. They're fine too.> >> > Now here's the weird thing. It was around 40 degrees when I first > > experienced this. Monday and yesterday it was significantly colder > > (between 0-20 degrees), and the car rides fine! Now again this > > morning at 30 degrees it's back. WTF? Any ideas - could this be a > > bad shock and would the failure be temperature sensitive?> >> > Any insight would be appreciated!> >> > Paul> > 95.5 S6A> > 99 A6A> > _______________________________________________> > S-CAR-List mailing list> > S-CAR-List at audifans.com> > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list> > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 6> Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 01:12:53 +0000> From: yo-cello at comcast.net> Subject: Re: [s-cars] Odd suspension behaviour> To: K Hayes > Cc: s-car-list at audifans.com> Message-ID:> > <031320080112.28645.47D87F9500014DD100006FE522155751140104040A0CD30197 at comca> st.net>> > Content-Type: text/plain> > > === message truncated ===> > > ---------------------------------> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it> now.> _______________________________________________> S-CAR-List mailing list> S-CAR-List at audifans.com> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list> > _______________________________________________> S-CAR-List mailing list> S-CAR-List at audifans.com> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list> > > > _______________________________________________> S-CAR-List mailing list> S-CAR-List at audifans.com> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list> _______________________________________________> S-CAR-List mailing list> S-CAR-List at audifans.com> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list