[s-cars] Oil and Turbos

[Manuel Sanchez]

Dave,

Any chance you remember if this is what you got:

Earl's Performance 42508AERL

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=EAR% 
2D42508AERL&N=700+4294839034+400041+115&autoview=sku

Are you running any sort of thermostat? There are some thermostats  
listed:

Earl's Performance 501ERL
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=EAR% 
2D501ERL&N=700+4294839034+4294843279+115&autoview=sku
This one says it has a thermostat but does not list the temp setting.

this other one lists the 100C temp that Scott mentioned as being  
desirable:
  Canton Racing Products 22-480
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=CTR% 
2D22%2D480&N=700+4294839034+4294843279+115&autoview=sku


Would you know what fittings are needed (and how many) are needed for  
the job?

The Aeroquip hose they list for oil applications are rated to 300F/ 
150C. I don't suppose there are hoses rated above 150C (just in case)?


Scott's reference to engine failure got my attention.


Regards,

-Manny
95.5 ur S6 Avant (mostly RS2)



On Mar 25, 2009, at 5:05 PM, djdawson2 at aol.com wrote:

> Manny,
> The cooler I bought (Summit) had mounting tabs on it that worked  
> nicely for the old IC location.  I think I used one original mount  
> point, and drilled the second.  On the outboard side of the cooler,  
> I just made one small mount out of flat stock to keep it from  
> bouncing, although it was pretty secure just using the 2 inboard  
> points.
>
> I ran the oil lines along the same path as the wiper fluid hoses...  
> I used wire ties, and insulated using strips of silicon pressure  
> hose to keep the SS lines from rubbing anything else.
>
> All in all, it was an easy project that took little time to  
> complete.  It also added about a quart to the overall system  
> capacity, which was helpful as well.  I've had it for a good 4  
> years... no problems ever.
>
> Dave
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Manuel Sanchez <manuelsanchez at starpower.net>
> To: Scott Justusson <qshipq at aol.com>; djdawson2 at aol.com; audi list  
> <s-car-list at audifans.com>
> Cc: Tom Green <trgreen at comcast.net>
> Sent: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 6:31 am
> Subject: Re: Oil and Turbos
>
> Thanks for the info Scott.
>
> Dave when you mounted your cooler in the old IC location did you  
> use any of the stock m ounting bits or did you have to fab up all  
> the brackets? How did you route the new oil lines?
>
> Regards,
>
> -Manny
>
> 95.5 ur S6 Avant (mostly RS2'd)
>
> On Mar 24, 2009, at 10:44 PM, Scott Justusson wrote:
>
> >
> > Audi wrote the book on all this turbo/oil stuff, specifically
> > co/authored many SAE papers on the subject, before and after >  
> watercooled
> > turbos/synthetic oils. Specific to this topic --- See 880258 "The
> > development of a Severe Turbocharger Bench Engine Test" and  
> 860103 > "The
> > third-Generation Turbocharged Engine for the Audi 5000 CS and 5000CS
> > Quattro", and 970922 "Development of Modern Engine Lubrication >  
> Systems".
> >
> >
> > Relevant Info to this thread:
> >
> > 860103 - Running I5 turbo motor, the temps of the piston ring with
> > watercooling are 190C, temps of the turbo bearing housing 120C.
> > Shutdown kills engines if the water circulation circuit is not
> > functioning. Without water cooling the numbers are 260C PR and 140C
> > TBH. On shut down, the non water cooled temps go to 360C PR and >  
> 250TBH
> > within 2 minutes of heat soak.
> >
> > Rule: Make sure your after run pump is working. Regardless, some
> > idling before shutdown never hurts.
> =0 A >
> > Manny, leakdown of </=10% is good, =/>20% is bad. Do compression  
> > check
> > first. IME, the 25 row oil cooler is a good match for the I5 >  
> 20vt. At
> > 90+F track day running an S car hard with a 25 row cooler, I >  
> observed a
> > peak of 120C, and by the time we got to back into the pits the  
> temp > was
> > at or under 100C. For a dedicated track car a 36 row is better, but
> > overkill (read tough to get up to 100C) for daily driving. >  
> Altitude and
> > an FMIC, might be better with the 36 row, but that's a big dog to  
> > stuff
> > under the hood of the dog house.
> >
> > Specific to the concerns on oil temps in other cars, the rule of  
> thumb
> > is you want the oil temp to reach 100C to burn off the moisture  
> in the
> > oil. Since all Audi turbo cars come with 100C oil cooler thermostats
> > from the factory, this should be a non issue on the AAN.
> >
> > HTH and my .02
> >
> > Scott J
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com
> > [mailto:s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com] On Behalf Of Tom Green
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:15 PM
> > To:=2 0djdawson2 at aol.com
> > Cc: manuelsanchez at starpower.net; s-car-list at audifans.com
> > Subject: Re: [s-cars] Oil Temperature
> >
> > I just know better than to touch any of this stuff when it's hot.
> > But, I am sure that the oil temps are high enough to coke  
> conventional
> > oil at 150ºC, and at that inlet temperature, it would be hotter  
> in the
> > turbo. What was engineered to work just fine for 50K miles is
> > not necessarily just fine at 150K miles. The advantages of synthetic
> > are proven for the turbo applications, which is what I wanted to
> > convey.
> >
> > I think Manny's OEM cooler can keep up with the RS2 if it is in good
> > condition. Most I see have coils almost filled with oily dirt on the
> > outside. Insides can be nasty also, so I would check the present oil
> > cooler out before opting to buy an aftermarket system. Perhaps
> > he needs a bigger cooler. I certainly don't want to suggest that
> > Manny needs to "back off" on any of his sessions. : > )
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > On Mar 24, 2009, at 6:44 PM, djdawson2 at aol.com wrote:
> >
> >> I think the bearing section of the turbo is, without question, the
> >> place where oil temps are highest... hence the after-cooling pump.
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Brett Dikeman <brett.dikeman at gmail.com>
> >> To: Tom Green <trgreen at comcast.net>
> >> Cc: Manuel Sanchez <manuelsanchez at starpower.net>; Scarlist
> > <s-car-list at audifans.com
> >>>
> >> Sent: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 2:29 pm
> >> Subject: Re: [s-cars] Oil Temperature
> >>
> >> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 3:36 PM, Tom Green <trgreen at comcast.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> At the turbo, the oil probably reaches the flash point, so that
> >> can't be good.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I'm not sure what the relevance of flash points are, but the flash
> >>
> >> point of 15w50 Mobil1 is 235C; 455F. The coke point of most
> >>
> >> synthetics is even higher. In a water-cooled-center-section k24,  
> you
> >>
> >> think the oil is heated by a differential of more than 100C from  
> the
> >>
> >> coolan t? These cars were designed to work just fine on dino oil...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> One would think oil sees the hottest surfaces around the
> >>
> >> pistons/rings/cylinder wall.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Brett
> >
>
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