[s-cars] speed vs. weight, 10 kilos and 0.4 seconds & Mahoney JNR ersatz M3 CSL

Fri May 15 14:35:27 PDT 2009

I just took a ride the other day in a friend's Evo that has carbon doors,
roof, fenders & every light weight thing you can do down to a fuel cell &
the final dry weight with cage is 2217 pounds.  From about 3300 or so.

He plans to hit Bonneville in August to set some sort of stupid record with
the damned thing.  I'll keep youse guys in the loop.  It should either be
fast or spectacular or both.

Pizzo

On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 1:51 PM, Michael Lardizabal <
mikellardizabal at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Excellent intel !  Thanks for posting that.
>
> I was trying to get the ideal lightest weight for my M5 which in the owners
> manual lists it as 3805 lbs w/ a full 21 gals of fuel,spare tire , tools and
> jack.
>
> Here's my run down of weight loss w/ a scale.
>
> 5 gals of fuel instead of 21 = 100lb loss
> Spare Tire= 50 lbs
> Floor mats,tool kit, jack, rear bench seat, rear trunk carpet = 60 lbs
> Red Top Optima battery instead of 65lb oem anchor = 30lbs
>
> This roughly brings the cars weight to 3580-3600 lbs.
>
> It makes a  H U G E difference in the cars ability to move. Especially from
> a dead stop.
>
> Won't go too far w/ 5 gals in the tank.....but its sheer bliss for a few
> miles .
>
> FWIW the car dyno'd at 342 hp so the power/weight ratio  was not too
> shabby.
>
> The stock leather all power seats in this car weigh 80 lbs each according
> to a fellow M5 owner who took his out. He ended up with Carbon Misano's that
> were 15lbs w/ brackets.
>
> How much do fenders weigh ?   : p
>
>
>
>
> --- On Fri, 5/15/09, MLP at DT <mlp5809 at msn.com> wrote:
>
> From: MLP at DT <mlp5809 at msn.com>
> Subject: [s-cars] speed vs. weight, 10 kilos and 0.4 seconds & Mahoney JNR
> ersatz M3 CSL
> To: s-car-list at audifans.com
> Cc: wmahoney at disk.com, pkrasusky at ups.com
> Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 10:41 AM
>
> Sorry don't post very often, but still skim the list traffic digest from
> time to time.
>
> Took a look at Mr. Mahoney's link,
> http://www.usautoparts.net/bmw/models/m3_ltw.htm
> (and My .002 Bill~rules is for the birds~M  http://tinyurl.com/oymcot
> Bill
> that is an awfully tiny bird, I'll be Paul's is the size of a 747)
>
>  and got to wondering what opinions or insights the list might have on what
> 10 kilos, or in Mahoney's case "200-300 lbs depending on how Bill were
> optioned"  may be worth on a track  :-)
>
> Basically, what rough rules of thumb does one look to when guessing about
> the performance effectiveness of shaving a little weight off a car?  I'm
> just going to cut & paste the notes I took on Mattchet's F1 commentary on
> the question:
>
> Weight & Speed ~ 10 Kg / 22 lbs equals a theoretical @ 0.4ths of a second
> time advantage on the Shanghai Circuit.
>
> Steve Matchet Formula 1
> Shanghai Circuit ~ length 5.451 km / 3.387 miles
> Lap Record (2004 M. Schumacher):  1.32.238 seconds
> 2009 won by Sebastian Vettle RBR-Renault pole position 1
>
> 2009 Qualifying Positions:
> Vettle Pole 1 w/         1.36.184 lap
> Alonso Qualified 2nd w/    1.36.381 lap
> Webber 3rd w/        1.36.381 lap
>
> Race Vettle finishes 1st, Weber 2nd & Button 3rd (started 5th); Barrichello
> 4th (started 4th).
> Fernando Alonso finished 9th, pole position 2.
>
> Mattchet's comment on the qualifying times was something to the effect, now
> that teams have to publish their fuel loads at the start of the race, a
> "fuel corrected time" between the Red Bull chassis (Vettle & Webber's cars)
> and Alonso's R29 Toyota, based on 10 Kilos (Alonso was running "very, very
> light" by @ 22lbs), "ought to" make Alonso's car something like 0.3ths of a
> second faster than Vettle, but he wasn't.  Alonso was @ 0.2 tenths slower
> in
> qualifying. Taking Alonso's 10 kilo weight advantage, per Matchet's
> comments, into account, Alonso's is really something like 0.4 to 0.5 tenths
> off the Red Bull pace.
>
> Questions:  What math goes into Mattchet's calculations that Alonso "ought
> to be 4 tenths faster if he's 10 kilos lighter?" What rough rule* or rules
> of thumb** are used in estimating a .4 to .5 lap times based on a 10 kilo
> weight difference?
>
> Formula 1 2009 minimum car weight, INCLUDING driver & fluids, #1,333 lbs;
> Note, Minimum weight is set to increase for 2010 per 5/18 Autoweek blurb to
> #1,367 lbs ". to remove an inherent performance disadvantage for heavier
> drivers since the introduction of KERS ~ a KERS battery weighs @ 77
> lbs."
>
> Fuel "ROT"
> Water weighs @ 8.3# lbs per gallon, Fuel floats on water;
> Gasoline @ 6.1 to 6.25# per gallon, weight varies with temperature
> Jet Fuel (basically kerosene) is heavier, weighs @ 6.7 - 6.8# per gallon
> Diesel "most commonly used weight is 7.3# per US gallon."
>
> From the US Government:
> 1 gallon of water equals 8.33 lbs.
> 1 gallon of gasoline equals 5.8 to 6.5 lbs.
> 1 gallon of ethanol equals 6.59 lbs.
> Source: U.S. Dept. of Energy. Fuel From Farms: a Guide to Small Scale
> Ethanol Production. May 1980. Page D-3.
>
> The weight of gasoline is dependent on temperature.  It also depends on how
> much alcohol has been added. Today, that's sometimes a lot. So we come up
> with:
> 1 gallon of water equals 8.33 lbs.
> 1 gallon of gasoline equals 5.8 to 6.5 lbs.
> 1 gallon of ethanol equals 6.59 lbs.
>
> Automotive gasoline has a density of about 737.22 kilograms per cubic meter
> at 60 degrees F. Doing conversions yields 6.152 lbs per US gallon.
>
> ** ROT ~ Rule(s) of Thumb
> R-ROT  Rough Rule(s) of Thumb
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re:  JNR marketplace list, A car story (Michael Lardizabal)
> Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 12:07:49 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Michael Lardizabal <mikellardizabal at yahoo.com>
>
> Bill- Excellent case in point ditty. What a car ! 27K ....Hens Teeth
> rare....and you found it here....
> Bring it to Fest.   Mike
>
> --- On Thu, 5/14/09, Bill Mahoney <wmahoney at disk.com> wrote:
>
> "...... I picked up on Paul?s idiotic idea to add the motorsport flag set
> and then carried it a step further to an ersatz LTW (lightweight)
> http://www.usautoparts.net/bmw/models/m3_ltw.htm sedan, which of course
> was
> never ever made at the factory. I will never have aluminum doors or the
> sunroof removed, but what else can you do with a white ...."
>
>
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