[s-cars] Truth vs. Joy

[Taka Mizutani]

Now Scott, you just made yourself look stupid.

Car and Driver's results? Corvette Z51 3:04, BMW M3 3:06- maybe not
"circles," but the BMW loses to a 5-year old car with less horsepower
because the Corvette weighs a good 400 lbs. less. The Grand Sport runs
circles around the M3- 2:59 is way faster.

I have driven them and compared them myself, thank you.

I'll take any Porsche over the comparable BMW- I've driven them and I prefer
the Boxster or Cayman to anything in that range from BMW, same with the
Cayenne and same with the 911. The only Porsches I haven't driven are the
Panamera and the Carrera GT.

You're killing me- the STi and Evo are "kid cars, single purpose," yet you
say that you don't hold any assumptions or preconceptions about the cars
beforehand? Both of those cars drive better than the BMW for less money, how
is that a bad thing? Or are you then changing the target and saying that the
BMW is better because it's more luxurious, feels more solid and doesn't look
like a teenager's wet dream?

Just leave it that we don't agree at all.

You're not towing a double car trailer or even an enclosed 28' single car
trailer with an X5 or your landcruiser- try going through truck inspection
with that one and see what happens- penalties for exceeding max weight are
steep. Oh, and try doing it through the Poconos and the Catskills on the way
to WGI.

You haven't even addressed the fuel pump and injector issues that the N54
engines have, although to be fair the GTI's engine has the same issues.

As for driving experience without looking at numbers, a classic 911 or my
Miata or a bunch of other cars drive a lot better than any of the current
roundup of 1, 3, 5 or whatever series BMW. The STi and the Evo are the
closest to that in modern cars- they have tons of feedback, while the
current Audi and BMW models filter everything heavily.

And the A5/S5 pair look far better than anything BMW has put out in the
current lineup. Same thing with the B7 and B8 A4/S4 and as well with the D3
and D4 A8/S8.

Taka





On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 6:43 PM, <qshipq at aol.com> wrote:

>  Taka
> I've said it many times before, you need to *drive* cars, and objective
> compare them yourself.  C&D did the 'Lightning Lap' article just last
> month.  The corvette won't run circles around the M3... Or, based strictly
> on the times in class using your argument, the M3 will 'run circles' around
> the S4.  Good reads, but I enjoy comparing rides and drives of many cars,
> and learned long ago, that's not any offense to what's in my driveway.
> Apples to Apples: The RS4 feels heavy, and front heavy driven hard.  The M3
> feels heavy, and *solid* driven hard.  The 'quattro' advantage wanes
> quickly.  Again, it's how you wear your weight.
>
> Me, I prefer my landcruiser with TRD supercharger for towing, but the x5
> sport will tow a the boat to the lake in good style, with form, and good
> brakes.  STi and Evo?  Kid cars, one purpose, and that singular purpose
> eclipses so many basics, they become chores.  I enjoy a good romp with the
> Evo, but even Pizzo sold his monsta.  The best part of that romp?  Knowing I
> had fun, AND I can give the keys back.  Best ride to set your eyes on fire
> when wearing your hat backwards?  Take a romp in a 135i with the Dinan chip
> package and warrantee.
>
> The BMW v Audi is about the evolution of Grand Touring Automobiles.
> Specifically, how to get the least compromises from a performance machine.
> To that end, the battle is full swing, and I claim De Lorenzo is still 180
> out of whack.  I enjoy good car comparos with those that can compare them
> objectively with btdt.  Class to class, BMW hits the marque very hard, in
> objective and subjective comparos, IMO.  I thoroughly enjoyed my ride in a
> Camaro SS too, but the comparison to the BMW/Audis can only be a track
> time.  Which then brings back my point, the evolution of the Grand Touring
> Automobile has come a long way.  And part of that battle of the rings vs
> roundel, is how BMW chips away constantly at the 'quattro' advantage.  50/50
> weight distribution goes a long way towards that end.  Add in identical awd
> systems, Audi is at the disadvantage now.
>
> And I'm quite happy that I own more than one of the classic GT's in my
> collection of urq's.  To me, like driving the 911S, it's always a plus when
> the enjoyment of the ride, stands the test of time.
>
> SJ
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Taka Mizutani <t44tqtro at gmail.com>
> To: qshipq at aol.com
> Cc: theringmeister at triad.rr.com; jc at j2c3.com; s-car-list at audifans.com
> Sent: Fri, Mar 19, 2010 5:01 pm
> Subject: Re: [s-cars] Truth vs. Joy
>
>  I would rather buy a Porsche than a performance BMW model. If we stick to
> awd models, I still prefer the Audi quattro system over any other system
> I've driven.  My Corvette will run circles around the BMW's you mentioned
> and a gt-3 will do even better.
> As a performance luxury car, IMO the fugly cayenne does better and the
> Audi's are much nicer to sit in, dealer experience notwithstanding.
> I have other cars, so I don't need one car to do it all. I still think an
> s5 or s4 is a much nicer daily driver than a comparable BMW.
> I'd also choose a diesel pickup or a suburban as a tow vehicle unless youre
> towing bikes or something light.
> If you're going to excuse the ugliness of current BMW's then an sti or
> evolution is a much better performance car.
> I guess we can agree to disagree, because I don't see any BMW other than
> the x5m or the 535xi touring manual that I would ever buy.
>