[s-cars] HPDE Track Tires
dgraber460 at aol.com
dgraber460 at aol.com
Thu May 13 18:24:05 PDT 2010
Also, with camber plates, can't you just
un them with more camber at the track, revert back to normal for the
treet, tighten up the bolts and go? That's the whole point of them, isn't
t?
True enough, but you also change the toe when you move camber settings, which would need to be dealt with.
Dennis
Denver
-----Original Message-----
From: Taka Mizutani <t44tqtro at gmail.com>
To: manuelsanchez at starpower.net
Cc: s-car-list list <s-car-list at audifans.com>
Sent: Thu, May 13, 2010 12:42 pm
Subject: Re: [s-cars] HPDE Track Tires
My $0.02, take them with a grain of salt, defer to the track experts-
es, wear rating is indicative of the softness of the compound- however, you
an NOT compare wear ratings across different brands, they are not
omparable.
The point I was making was that you will kill tires from overheating and
hunking much more so than actual wear. It's hard to expound on a cellphone.
I wouldn't worry about running R compound tires at 50F as long as you're
ognizant of warming up cold tires. Also, with camber plates, can't you just
un them with more camber at the track, revert back to normal for the
treet, tighten up the bolts and go? That's the whole point of them, isn't
t?
R compound definitely performs better than street tires in the conditions
ou describe. Much greater grip, no chunking. No comparison between street
ires and R rubber- not the same ballpark.
Taka
On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 1:25 PM, <manuelsanchez at starpower.net> wrote:
> Taka,
To date I have always run a street tire at the HPDE events, and some of the
tires have indeed chunked. If I went Pilot Sport, I would have them shaved,
which I understand would help the chunking problem a bit (how much I don't
know).
I was supposing that the wear rating of a tire was indicative of how soft
the compound is, and thus, presumably, a softer compound would mean a
stickier tire.
Aside from the chunking, any thoughts about my ambient temperature and
camber setting comments? I realize I'll need to be even more careful in
taking the time to properly warm up an R Compound tire, but never having
used any I don't know if on a 50 degree F morning that will take 2 laps, 4
laps, 6 laps to do, or if because Ms Piggy is so fat, they will be warmed up
in no time.
Is a R Compound tire on a car with street alignment going to perform
noticeably better than a high performance street tire
with street or -1.5 degrees of camber. Is the performance gain mostly non
chunking tires or other.
tIA
Manny
---- Original message ----
>Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 13:07:15 -0400
>From: Taka Mizutani <t44tqtro at gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [s-cars] HPDE Track Tires
>To: Manuel Sanchez <manuelsanchez at starpower.net>
>Cc: s-car-list list <s-car-list at audifans.com>
>
> Get the ra-1. It you run those Michelin tires at the
> track, you'll just chunk them. Wear rating is
> irrelevant at the track- overheated tread chunks
> will just wear right off.
>
> On May 13, 2010 9:41 AM, "Manuel Sanchez"
> <manuelsanchez at starpower.net> wrote:
>
> Fellow S-heads,
>
> I am looking into purchasing a set of tire that
> will mainly be used
> for HPDE events. I typically go when it is
> relatively cool outside.
> This is typically 4 track days per year (April and
> November). Often
> the mornings are cold, 40-50 degrees F (4-10C) ,
> warming up to low
> 70s F (22C).
>
> I have currently been running Toyo T1Rs and I
> didn't really like them
> too much. I am probably over driving them. They
> howl alot and the
> sidewalls really roll over (in my opinion). I
> sometimes run stock
> camber, but other times run -1.5 degrees of camber
> (I actually don't
> know what the limits are of my 2B Camber plates
> are). I am running
> 2B's coilover kit with 600lb rear springs and I
> think 440s in the
> front. Koni Yellows, adjustable in the front.
>
> So while I'd like to ratchet up my performance a
> bit at the track, I
> don't have a Donald trump bank account, so price
> will be a
> consideration.
>
> When I took my Toyo T1R's to my reputable tire
> dealer, he said these
> tires weren't really designed for what I've been
> doing to them, and
> recommended Toyo RA-1's (instead of the R-888)
> when I am ready, as
> the RA1's have proven to take a beating (I have an
> Avant).
>
> My wheel size is 17" x 8".
>
> I am looking likely at 245/40-17 (I currently have
> 235/45-17's).
>
> Most of these DOT R compound tires seem to hover
> in the $250/tire range.
>
> Tire rack has a special for Michelin Pilot Sport
> PS2's for $167/tire.
> That's essential a buy 3 get 1 free deal compared
> to regular price.
>
> The delta between a DOT R compound and these is
> about $332.
>
> I have read in GRM that to really get the most out
> of a track tire,
> you need to run lots of negative camber. Toyo
> lists -2.5 to -5
> degrees camber on their website. I have run -1.5
> degrees of camber
> (don't know if I can set my plates up to get more
> or not). I also
> drive my car to the track and that's usually a 500
> mile round trip
> each time, so I have thought that more
> aggressive alignment might
> chew up the tires I use to drive down a bit (the
> beauty of the avant
> as a track whore is that a complete set of track
> tires fits
> comfortably where the 3rd row seating is located).
>
> The Michelin PS2's have a wear rating of 220.
> Toyo RA1's have a wear rating of 100.
> The Michelins are about 3-4 lbs lighter / tire
> than the Toyo's.
>
> So:
>
> Has anyone run either of these tires on their urS
> at the track?
> If so, what did you think of them?
> Based on my experience with the T1R's I would like
> to find a tire
> with a sidewall stiff enough that it won't roll
> over (I have had
> other tires that did not seem to roll over onto
> the sidewall as
> easily as the Toyo's, Goodyear F1 GSD3's and some
> Dunlops that I
> can't remember).
> Would an R Compound tire be a waste, since I have
> not run at least
> -2.5 degrees of camber?
> Would R Compound tires be a waste because the
> track temperatures when
> I attend HPDE's is cool (in my opinion), or are
> those ambient
> temperatures warm enough to get an R compound tire
> to really shine?
>
> I could also let this PS2 sale slide by and when
> the time comes buy a
> cheaper set of Hankooks or Kuhmo street tires to
> beat on at the
> track. They seem to be substantially cheaper.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Manny
> 95.5 urS6 Avant (mostly RS2'd)
>
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