[s-cars] S-CAR-List Digest, Vol 85, Issue 6

calvin young calvinyoung at cox.net
Thu Nov 4 07:22:48 PDT 2010


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <s-car-list-request at audifans.com>
To: <s-car-list at audifans.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 7:53 PM
Subject: S-CAR-List Digest, Vol 85, Issue 6


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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re:  AUDIophile! Stereo Options? (Robert Myers)
>   2. Re:  AUDIophile! Stereo Options? (Robert Myers)
>   3. Re:  AUDIophile! Stereo Options? (Ben Swann)
>   4. Re:  AUDIophile! Stereo Options? (robert weinberg)
>   5. Re:  AUDIophile! Stereo Options? (Eric Sanborn)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 16:17:01 -0400
> From: Robert Myers <bob at chips-ur-s.com>
> Subject: Re: [s-cars] AUDIophile! Stereo Options?
> To: "Ben Swann" <benswann at verizon.net>
> Cc: 'Ben Swann' <benswann at verizon.net>, s-car-list at audifans.com,
> quattro at audifans.com, 200q20v at audifans.com
> Message-ID: <auto-000000921502 at chips-ur-s.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> *This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(r) Pro*
>
> Hi Y'all,
>
> Please, I'm not trying to be my usual smart-ass self.  I have a
> serious question.
>
> Is the interior of your car quiet enough to permit serious listening
> pleasure?  I'm positive mine isn't for a couple of reasons.  First,
> I'm nearly deaf as a post so almost nothing will help me enjoy
> music.  Second, background noise certainly can't help.  Unless maybe
> you're sitting in a parked car while listening to your stereo.
>
> So, why build a super sound system?
>
> Bob
>
>
> At 12:43 PM 11/3/2010, Ben Swann wrote:
>>*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(r) Pro*
>>AUDIophile!
>>
>>Looking for options, advice, information on vehicle
>>infotainment.  This is probably
>>opening an evil thread spawning much non-Audi related content, but
>>figured who better to
>>ask.  I used to be fairly up to date audiphile wise, but simply have
>>not kept up with
>>that area of expertise.
>>
>>I'm looking to put together a nice system, and specing out a good
>>head unit might be a
>>good idea instead of doing the usual JVC, Sony  $100 deal.  I could
>>do more like $300 on
>>the head if there is actual bang for the buck since one can get a
>>lot even  in the $100
>>price range.
>>
>>I had procured a lot of sound system stuff for my S2 Coupe Quattro
>>build that started
>>several years ago - thinking I would be done sooner.  Now probably
>>most of the stuff is
>>either obsolete or cannibalized for other cars.  So I figured I
>>might do well to start
>>from relative scratch if need be considering how much time and money
>>has gone into this
>>car already.
>>
>>I will likely do a bi-amp setup with subwoofer and like other
>>systems, use both RCA out
>>front and rear to amplifiers to drive a full set  of speakers and a
>>sub, and utilize the
>>speaker outputs from the head unit.  I have some AMPS, and can but
>>may need to get a few
>>new - my preference is an amp in trunk or under seat that has Front
>>& Rear RCA in and
>>lets me mix out to same and either integrated single SUB or separate
>>sub signal out.
>>
>>I have tons of speakers so no need to discuss those.
>>
>>I still use tapes, but probably would migrate to newer digital media
>>like MP3 if I have
>>to choose between the two.  CD/CDR is a must.  To pre-empt a lecture
>>on getting with the
>>times, I'll simply state  I'm not about to re-invest in replacing
>>music I have on older
>>formats just to get modern.  I don't have the money or the time to
>>re-record and collect
>>the stuff, but would like to be able to play CD/DVDs I have created
>>from a library.  I
>>can  however leave the tapes in the Eurovan, or other cars that use
>>them.  I hear the
>>laughing about tapes and CDs now - surely the same laughs will come
>>back to haunt in the
>>future when present technology is obsoleted.
>>
>>So looking for recommendations that fit in well with the Coupe
>>Quattro console - look
>>good, not flashy and more Germanic function - hate fiddly little
>>buttons and convoluted
>>panels.  The Original wiring is gone and would not consider redoing
>>that, so options are
>>wide open.  I'd even consider investing more in DVD Screen, or even
>>better a small
>>computer system so I can run diagnostics, tune, answer the phone,
>>etc. but what fits in
>>Single DIN space?  Sound quality and reliability are most important
>>- it cost me more to
>>get a system like this wired properly than the components, so don't
>>like to be replacing
>>stuff a year or two after installation.
>>
>>I mostly play CDs - Remote CD changer is probably a given.  I could
>>utilize a few Audi
>>and ALPINE Changers if they would be compatable with the newer.  FM
>>stereo and good
>>reception is a must - I'd do Sattelite, but I will not have anything
>>to do with Monthy
>>Recurring Charges, so that option is nice to be in there, but will
>>likely not be used.
>>
>>I'd certainly be open to a nice fairly new used unit as long as the
>>hookups are complete
>>and undamaged - no 2" pigtails that need to be spliced.
>>
>>Ben
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>quattro mailing list
>>http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/quattro
>>http://www.audifans.com/kb/List_information
>>
>>
>>-----
>>No virus found in this message.
>>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3234 - Release Date: 11/02/10
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 16:48:24 -0400
> From: Robert Myers <bob at chips-ur-s.com>
> Subject: Re: [s-cars] AUDIophile! Stereo Options?
> To: Kneale Brownson <kneale at coslink.net>
> Cc: Ben Swann <benswann at verizon.net>, quattro at audifans.com,
> s-car-list at audifans.com, 200q20v at audifans.com
> Message-ID: <auto-000000921511 at chips-ur-s.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> *This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(r) Pro*
>
> 1940's?  Youngster.
>
> At 04:41 PM 11/3/2010, Kneale Brownson wrote:
>>*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(r) Pro*
>>Not all these folks are as old/deaf as we 1940s guys, Bob, and you
>>gotta impress when you're younger.
>>
>>Robert Myers wrote:
>>>*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(r) Pro*
>>>
>>>Hi Y'all,
>>>
>>>Please, I'm not trying to be my usual smart-ass self.  I have a
>>>serious question.
>>>
>>>Is the interior of your car quiet enough to permit serious
>>>listening pleasure?  I'm positive mine isn't for a couple of
>>>reasons.  First, I'm nearly deaf as a post so almost nothing will
>>>help me enjoy music.  Second, background noise certainly can't
>>>help.  Unless maybe you're sitting in a parked car while listening
>>>to your stereo.
>>>
>>>So, why build a super sound system?
>>>
>>>Bob
>>>
>>>
>>>At 12:43 PM 11/3/2010, Ben Swann wrote:
>>>
>>>>*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(r) 
>>>>Pro*
>>>>AUDIophile!
>>>>
>>>>Looking for options, advice, information on vehicle
>>>>infotainment.  This is probably
>>>>opening an evil thread spawning much non-Audi related content, but
>>>>figured who better to
>>>>ask.  I used to be fairly up to date audiphile wise, but simply
>>>>have not kept up with
>>>>that area of expertise.
>>>>
>>>>I'm looking to put together a nice system, and specing out a good
>>>>head unit might be a
>>>>good idea instead of doing the usual JVC, Sony  $100 deal.  I
>>>>could do more like $300 on
>>>>the head if there is actual bang for the buck since one can get a
>>>>lot even  in the $100
>>>>price range.
>>>>
>>>>I had procured a lot of sound system stuff for my S2 Coupe Quattro
>>>>build that started
>>>>several years ago - thinking I would be done sooner.  Now probably
>>>>most of the stuff is
>>>>either obsolete or cannibalized for other cars.  So I figured I
>>>>might do well to start
>>>>
>>> >from relative scratch if need be considering how much time and money
>>>>has gone into this
>>>>car already.
>>>>
>>>>I will likely do a bi-amp setup with subwoofer and like other
>>>>systems, use both RCA out
>>>>front and rear to amplifiers to drive a full set  of speakers and
>>>>a sub, and utilize the
>>>>speaker outputs from the head unit.  I have some AMPS, and can but
>>>>may need to get a few
>>>>new - my preference is an amp in trunk or under seat that has
>>>>Front & Rear RCA in and
>>>>lets me mix out to same and either integrated single SUB or
>>>>separate sub signal out.
>>>>
>>>>I have tons of speakers so no need to discuss those.
>>>>
>>>>I still use tapes, but probably would migrate to newer digital
>>>>media like MP3 if I have
>>>>to choose between the two.  CD/CDR is a must.  To pre-empt a
>>>>lecture on getting with the
>>>>times, I'll simply state  I'm not about to re-invest in replacing
>>>>music I have on older
>>>>formats just to get modern.  I don't have the money or the time to
>>>>re-record and collect
>>>>the stuff, but would like to be able to play CD/DVDs I have created
>>> >from a library.  I
>>>
>>>>can  however leave the tapes in the Eurovan, or other cars that
>>>>use them.  I hear the
>>>>laughing about tapes and CDs now - surely the same laughs will
>>>>come back to haunt in the
>>>>future when present technology is obsoleted.
>>>>
>>>>So looking for recommendations that fit in well with the Coupe
>>>>Quattro console - look
>>>>good, not flashy and more Germanic function - hate fiddly little
>>>>buttons and convoluted
>>>>panels.  The Original wiring is gone and would not consider
>>>>redoing that, so options are
>>>>wide open.  I'd even consider investing more in DVD Screen, or
>>>>even better a small
>>>>computer system so I can run diagnostics, tune, answer the phone,
>>>>etc. but what fits in
>>>>Single DIN space?  Sound quality and reliability are most
>>>>important - it cost me more to
>>>>get a system like this wired properly than the components, so
>>>>don't like to be replacing
>>>>stuff a year or two after installation.
>>>>
>>>>I mostly play CDs - Remote CD changer is probably a given.  I
>>>>could utilize a few Audi
>>>>and ALPINE Changers if they would be compatable with the
>>>>newer.  FM stereo and good
>>>>reception is a must - I'd do Sattelite, but I will not have
>>>>anything to do with Monthy
>>>>Recurring Charges, so that option is nice to be in there, but will
>>>>likely not be used.
>>>>
>>>>I'd certainly be open to a nice fairly new used unit as long as
>>>>the hookups are complete
>>>>and undamaged - no 2" pigtails that need to be spliced.
>>>>
>>>>Ben
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>quattro mailing list
>>>>http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/quattro
>>>>http://www.audifans.com/kb/List_information
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-----
>>>>No virus found in this message.
>>>>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3234 - Release Date: 11/02/10
>>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>quattro mailing list
>>>http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/quattro
>>>http://www.audifans.com/kb/List_information
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>-----
>>No virus found in this message.
>>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3235 - Release Date: 11/03/10
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 16:59:50 -0400
> From: "Ben Swann" <benswann at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [s-cars] AUDIophile! Stereo Options?
> To: "'Robert Myers'" <bob at chips-ur-s.com>
> Cc: s-car-list at audifans.com, quattro at audifans.com,
> 200q20v at audifans.com
> Message-ID: <A53ACBE9BDF44FDCABA883FCB04EED7C at swansong>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Good point - that 3" exhaust is pretty loud.  That is not the way I want 
> it, and will
> need to find a way to dampen the noise.  When finished, I'd like the cabin 
> to be fairly
> quiet.
>
> I do sit in the car listening as well.
>
> Ben
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Myers [mailto:bob at chips-ur-s.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 4:17 PM
> To: Ben Swann
> Cc: quattro at audifans.com; s-car-list at audifans.com; 200q20v at audifans.com; 
> 'Ben Swann'
> Subject: Re: AUDIophile! Stereo Options?
>
> *This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(r) Pro*
>
> Hi Y'all,
>
> Please, I'm not trying to be my usual smart-ass self.  I have a serious 
> question.
>
> Is the interior of your car quiet enough to permit serious listening 
> pleasure?  I'm
> positive mine isn't for a couple of reasons.  First, I'm nearly deaf as a 
> post so almost
> nothing will help me enjoy music.  Second, background noise certainly 
> can't help.
> Unless maybe you're sitting in a parked car while listening to your 
> stereo.
>
> So, why build a super sound system?
>
> Bob
>
>
> At 12:43 PM 11/3/2010, Ben Swann wrote:
>>*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(r)
>>Pro* AUDIophile!
>>
>>Looking for options, advice, information on vehicle infotainment.  This
>>is probably opening an evil thread spawning much non-Audi related
>>content, but figured who better to ask.  I used to be fairly up to date
>>audiphile wise, but simply have not kept up with that area of
>>expertise.
>>
>>I'm looking to put together a nice system, and specing out a good head
>>unit might be a good idea instead of doing the usual JVC, Sony  $100
>>deal.  I could do more like $300 on the head if there is actual bang
>>for the buck since one can get a lot even  in the $100 price range.
>>
>>I had procured a lot of sound system stuff for my S2 Coupe Quattro
>>build that started several years ago - thinking I would be done sooner.
>>Now probably most of the stuff is either obsolete or cannibalized for
>>other cars.  So I figured I might do well to start from relative
>>scratch if need be considering how much time and money has gone into
>>this car already.
>>
>>I will likely do a bi-amp setup with subwoofer and like other systems,
>>use both RCA out front and rear to amplifiers to drive a full set  of
>>speakers and a sub, and utilize the speaker outputs from the head unit.
>>I have some AMPS, and can but may need to get a few new - my preference
>>is an amp in trunk or under seat that has Front & Rear RCA in and lets
>>me mix out to same and either integrated single SUB or separate sub
>>signal out.
>>
>>I have tons of speakers so no need to discuss those.
>>
>>I still use tapes, but probably would migrate to newer digital media
>>like MP3 if I have to choose between the two.  CD/CDR is a must.  To
>>pre-empt a lecture on getting with the times, I'll simply state  I'm
>>not about to re-invest in replacing music I have on older formats just
>>to get modern.  I don't have the money or the time to re-record and
>>collect the stuff, but would like to be able to play CD/DVDs I have
>>created from a library.  I can  however leave the tapes in the Eurovan,
>>or other cars that use them.  I hear the laughing about tapes and CDs
>>now - surely the same laughs will come back to haunt in the future when
>>present technology is obsoleted.
>>
>>So looking for recommendations that fit in well with the Coupe Quattro
>>console - look good, not flashy and more Germanic function - hate
>>fiddly little buttons and convoluted panels.  The Original wiring is
>>gone and would not consider redoing that, so options are wide open.
>>I'd even consider investing more in DVD Screen, or even better a small
>>computer system so I can run diagnostics, tune, answer the phone, etc.
>>but what fits in Single DIN space?  Sound quality and reliability are
>>most important
>>- it cost me more to
>>get a system like this wired properly than the components, so don't
>>like to be replacing stuff a year or two after installation.
>>
>>I mostly play CDs - Remote CD changer is probably a given.  I could
>>utilize a few Audi and ALPINE Changers if they would be compatable with
>>the newer.  FM stereo and good reception is a must - I'd do Sattelite,
>>but I will not have anything to do with Monthy Recurring Charges, so
>>that option is nice to be in there, but will likely not be used.
>>
>>I'd certainly be open to a nice fairly new used unit as long as the
>>hookups are complete and undamaged - no 2" pigtails that need to be
>>spliced.
>>
>>Ben
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>quattro mailing list
>>http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/quattro
>>http://www.audifans.com/kb/List_information
>>
>>
>>-----
>>No virus found in this message.
>>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3234 - Release Date: 11/02/10
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 14:30:55 -0700 (PDT)
> From: robert weinberg <centaurus3200 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [s-cars] AUDIophile! Stereo Options?
> To: 200q20v at audifans.com
> Cc: quattro at audifans.com, s-car-list at audifans.com
> Message-ID: <398192.41311.qm at web53705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> now that's my idea of an AUDIophile sound system. a 3" turboback ;-)
>
> nothing beats the sound of an uncorked 20V 5 banger pushing enough boost 
> to suck
> a goose into the intake. LOL! ;-)
>
> see ya,
> Robby
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Ben Swann <benswann at verizon.net>
> To: Robert Myers <bob at chips-ur-s.com>
> Cc: s-car-list at audifans.com; quattro at audifans.com; 200q20v at audifans.com
> Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 1:59:50 PM
> Subject: RE: AUDIophile! Stereo Options?
>
> Good point - that 3" exhaust is pretty loud.  That is not the way I want 
> it, and
> will
> need to find a way to dampen the noise.  When finished, I'd like the cabin 
> to be
> fairly
> quiet.
>
> I do sit in the car listening as well.
>
> Ben
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Myers [mailto:bob at chips-ur-s.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 4:17 PM
> To: Ben Swann
> Cc: quattro at audifans.com; s-car-list at audifans.com; 200q20v at audifans.com; 
> 'Ben
> Swann'
> Subject: Re: AUDIophile! Stereo Options?
>
> *This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(r) Pro*
>
> Hi Y'all,
>
> Please, I'm not trying to be my usual smart-ass self.  I have a serious
> question.
>
> Is the interior of your car quiet enough to permit serious listening 
> pleasure?
> I'm
> positive mine isn't for a couple of reasons.  First, I'm nearly deaf as a 
> post
> so almost
> nothing will help me enjoy music.  Second, background noise certainly 
> can't
> help.
> Unless maybe you're sitting in a parked car while listening to your 
> stereo.
>
> So, why build a super sound system?
>
> Bob
>
>
> At 12:43 PM 11/3/2010, Ben Swann wrote:
>>*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(r)
>>Pro* AUDIophile!
>>
>>Looking for options, advice, information on vehicle infotainment.  This
>>is probably opening an evil thread spawning much non-Audi related
>>content, but figured who better to ask.  I used to be fairly up to date
>>audiphile wise, but simply have not kept up with that area of
>>expertise.
>>
>>I'm looking to put together a nice system, and specing out a good head
>>unit might be a good idea instead of doing the usual JVC, Sony  $100
>>deal.  I could do more like $300 on the head if there is actual bang
>>for the buck since one can get a lot even  in the $100 price range.
>>
>>I had procured a lot of sound system stuff for my S2 Coupe Quattro
>>build that started several years ago - thinking I would be done sooner.
>>Now probably most of the stuff is either obsolete or cannibalized for
>>other cars.  So I figured I might do well to start from relative
>>scratch if need be considering how much time and money has gone into
>>this car already.
>>
>>I will likely do a bi-amp setup with subwoofer and like other systems,
>>use both RCA out front and rear to amplifiers to drive a full set  of
>>speakers and a sub, and utilize the speaker outputs from the head unit.
>>I have some AMPS, and can but may need to get a few new - my preference
>>is an amp in trunk or under seat that has Front & Rear RCA in and lets
>>me mix out to same and either integrated single SUB or separate sub
>>signal out.
>>
>>I have tons of speakers so no need to discuss those.
>>
>>I still use tapes, but probably would migrate to newer digital media
>>like MP3 if I have to choose between the two.  CD/CDR is a must.  To
>>pre-empt a lecture on getting with the times, I'll simply state  I'm
>>not about to re-invest in replacing music I have on older formats just
>>to get modern.  I don't have the money or the time to re-record and
>>collect the stuff, but would like to be able to play CD/DVDs I have
>>created from a library.  I can  however leave the tapes in the Eurovan,
>>or other cars that use them.  I hear the laughing about tapes and CDs
>>now - surely the same laughs will come back to haunt in the future when
>>present technology is obsoleted.
>>
>>So looking for recommendations that fit in well with the Coupe Quattro
>>console - look good, not flashy and more Germanic function - hate
>>fiddly little buttons and convoluted panels.  The Original wiring is
>>gone and would not consider redoing that, so options are wide open.
>>I'd even consider investing more in DVD Screen, or even better a small
>>computer system so I can run diagnostics, tune, answer the phone, etc.
>>but what fits in Single DIN space?  Sound quality and reliability are
>>most important
>>- it cost me more to
>>get a system like this wired properly than the components, so don't
>>like to be replacing stuff a year or two after installation.
>>
>>I mostly play CDs - Remote CD changer is probably a given.  I could
>>utilize a few Audi and ALPINE Changers if they would be compatable with
>>the newer.  FM stereo and good reception is a must - I'd do Sattelite,
>>but I will not have anything to do with Monthy Recurring Charges, so
>>that option is nice to be in there, but will likely not be used.
>>
>>I'd certainly be open to a nice fairly new used unit as long as the
>>hookups are complete and undamaged - no 2" pigtails that need to be
>>spliced.
>>
>>Ben
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>quattro mailing list
>>http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/quattro
>>http://www.audifans.com/kb/List_information
>>
>>
>>-----
>>No virus found in this message.
>>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3234 - Release Date: 11/02/10
>
> _______________________________________________
> 200q20v mailing list    http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 19:52:29 -0400
> From: Eric Sanborn <esanborn at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [s-cars] AUDIophile! Stereo Options?
> To: Ben Swann <benswann at verizon.net>
> Cc: s-car-list at audifans.com, quattro at audifans.com,
> 200q20v at audifans.com
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTindoRwkzONKgayKC71_F4B0dQBDfg74Wo4gtCt5 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Ben on the head unit front I went to the modern end of the spectrum with 
> my
> wife's '03 GTI in August.  I got a Dual head unit that has Bluetooth
> streaming and HD radio.  It also comes with an IPod cable which we have 
> not
> tried yet and the ability to play straight from a memory stick.  The 
> quality
> off the memory stick seems not as good so maybe its internal player isn't 
> as
> good.
>
> The Bluetooth however is awesome.  My wife and I both have Moto Droid
> phones.  She has an app (Tasker) that automatically launches and starts
> playing Slacker Radio when her phone detects and connects to the head 
> unit.
> You set up the Slacker stations (like Pandora) using your PC on the web
> site, then you can configure your phone to automatically start on the last
> played station.  It is nice if you have little ones it even has a check 
> box
> for keeping out explicit stuff, even though it doesn't always work so you
> have to stay on your toes.
>
> The head unit as only $179 at Crutchfield, but I am sure you can find it 
> for
> less elsewhere if you don't need all the special harnesses and install 
> kit.
>
> http://www.crutchfield.com/p_070XHD7714/Dual-XHD7714.html?tp=5684
>
> Ben on the muffler front I used 3" from the turbo back.  I have details on
> my web site (link below).  it was very deep, but a reasonable volume.
> There is a link to a short video at the end of the page.  The prices are
> from 2003 so YMMV.
>
> http://www.sofadog.net/4ktq/Step2.html
>
> -Eric
>
>
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> End of S-CAR-List Digest, Vol 85, Issue 6
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