[s-cars] No Start ABY/AAN engine - Problem Found?

[John Cody Forbes]

The two long pins on the pressure plate side I am pretty sure are *not* the ECU trigger pins. Those are for a factory testing tool which goes in the hole in the very top of the bell housing.  That's how it is on a 7A and 3B. The AAN I know uses the rectangular block again on the back of the flywheel. All 10v turbos use the pin on the back side of the flywheel and do not have the testing pins on the pressure plate side.

-Cody (mobile)

On Oct 3, 2010, at 9:58 PM, "Ben Swann" <benswann at verizon.net> wrote:

> Not based on what I see - there are no pins or protrusions whatsoever on the block side
> of the flywheel.  The pins go out toward the pressure plate side.  These roll pins
> protrude out about 1" from the flywheel.  They are on the same side as the pins that
> retain the pressure plate.  In the stock 3B setup, the pins come out between one of
> three "void areas of the pressure plate. 
> 
> Again, the pins do not come out block-side.  If they did, finding the location of where
> to drill for a new pin would be a piece of cake.  Instead to do this in situ, I need to
> drill all the way through the flywheel and drive a pin in all the way through so it
> comes out - hopefully through an existing hole in the pressure plate and not drilling a
> new hole.  
> 
> I'm not doing anything untill I get a warm fuzzy that I won't damage something doing
> this.  
> 
> I wish it were trivial to do a clutch/flywheel swap.  I know whats involved and quite
> frankly is the major part of doing the entire job.  You know my setup - I don't have
> access to a lift, etc. and am a one man show, so this has turned my dream project into
> somewhat of a nightmare.  The only thing I can say positively is that since everything
> is new, it won't be as messy and no stuck fasteners.  FWIW, I generally find it easier
> to pull the entire engine and trans to do a transmission separation than to do it in the
> car.
> 
> Ben 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Cody Forbes [mailto:cody at 5000tq.com] 
> Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 7:56 PM
> To: Ben Swann
> Cc: JC; <qshipq at aol.com>; <s-car-list at audifans.com>; <chris.miller at bqconsultants.com>
> Subject: Re: [s-cars] No Start ABY/AAN engine - Problem Found?
> 
> I'm confused. The pressure plate should not be involved. The engine signal pin protrudes
> from the back of the flywheel towards the block. You only need to drill about half an
> inch deep.
> 
> Personally I think it's worth pulling the flywheel out. When I was doing my coil-on-plug
> system I pulled the engine a total of 5 times to get it just right.
> 
> -Cody (mobile)
> 
> On Oct 3, 2010, at 12:27 PM, "Ben Swann" <benswann at verizon.net> wrote:
> 
>> I did confirm that there is no need to drill through the hardened pin  
>> - the number of teeth from TDC would be 12 instead of the 14th where 
>> the pin is.  The hole if drilled properly would go through an existing 
>> hole in the pressure plate.  So all I need to drill through is the thickness of the
> flywheel and have the location spot on.
>> 
>> Still the bellhousing idea sounds attractive and at first thought 
>> seems easier.  The problems would be to findthe exact location as well 
>> as deal with an irregular surface - the correct spot may in fact go 
>> through one of the bellhousing bolts and then would not be an option.  
>> Then one needs to precisely locate the sensor so it flys just above 
>> the pin without crashing into it and make a retainer to affix it 
>> permanently.  I had my hopes up at first that the existing factory hole in the
> transmission bellhousing or the 01E was made for this purpose, but no such luck.
>> 
>> Another concept would be to incorporate a timer circuit to count teeth 
>> after the detection of the pin using that hole and generate a second 
>> signal to the ECU which corresponds to the correct location.  Devil's in the details.
>> 
>> I will probably try the flywheel as it is straightforward and with 
>> correct measurement and equipment, I should be able to do this the same as if I were
> doing it on a bench.
>> 
>> Ben
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: JC [mailto:jc at j2c3.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 10:28 AM
>> To: 'Ben Swann'; qshipq at aol.com; cody at 5000tq.com
>> Cc: s-car-list at audifans.com; chris.miller at bqconsultants.com
>> Subject: RE: [s-cars] No Start ABY/AAN engine - Problem Found?
>> 
>>> 
>>> So..I am considering another alternative -  a backup plan to the 
>>> flywheel drilling in situ.  This is to simply drill a hole through 
>>> the trans bell-housing at the precise spot where
>> 
>> FWIW I like this plan much better from a FMEA point of view.  Worst 
>> case if there are problems with the flywheel drilling project, you 
>> could be looking at junking the flywheel and there you are dropping 
>> the tranny anyway. And with all respect to the fact that someone has 
>> done it before, drilling in-situ through the hardened pin, getting 
>> location exactly right, all just sounds like a mess with multiple ways to have things
> go wrong.
>> 
>> Drilling the bellhousing for a new sensor location on the other hand 
>> has far lower 'worst case' implications. Mounting doesn't work out or 
>> it's wrong spot, meh you've got another small hole in your 
>> bellhousing. Fill it with some of that extra epoxy you've got lying 
>> around.  Other thing that occurs to me if doing this option would be 
>> to fab a mount for the sensor that allows depth adjustment to get that critical
> spacing you talked about correct. Use locktite and a locknut to affix it once you've got
> it perfect.
>> 
>> All that said, I've learned the painful way that often it's far better 
>> to suck up taking more things apart and out of the way than screw 
>> around for hours/days with a work around to avoid doing it.
>> 
>> Are you sure all this isn't more trouble than just dropping that 
>> tranny one more time and getting it all back together the "right" way forever?
>> 
>> ---- current ----
>> 1995.5 S6 Avant
>> 2003 E46 M3 Cic
>> 2008 A3 2.0tDSG
>> ---- past lives ----
>> 2006 A4 2.0TQA
>> 1998 A6Q 2.8 PES G2
>> 1989 200TQA SJM
>> 1990 CQ
>> 1997 A4 1.8TQ Wett
>> 1987 4kCSQ
>> 
>> John J. Cunningham
>> jc at j2c3.com
>> US Mobile +1 (617) 750-5025
>> China Mobile: +86 (0) 136 8175 8180
>> 
>> 
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