[s-cars] No Start ABY/AAN engine - Problem Found?

[Ben Swann]

Well - son of a gun!
 
I just checked the two 3B flywheels that I had spare.  Neither of them have a pin
protruding backside, but there is a nub where one should be.  I don't recall there being
one on the one I installed, so this must be the problem.  Also, the flywheel I pulled
off the AAN has no such pin.  but does have a large tab mounted where the pin would be
on the 3B one.  There are also two tabs located like the pins clutch side on the AAN -
that is where I confused them for the sensor pins.
 
So it appears there was no change in location of the pin with respect to the ECU
programming, just that my pin is missing.
 
Now it all makes sense.  Wish I'd checked this before installing.  I am certain I can
make this repair in situ.  The pin is easy to locate and I'm pretty good at drilling
holes in tight spots even if it is hardened metal.  This is certainly a lot easier the
removing the trans and I'd have to drill the hole anyway.
 
I had been under the impression that the two pins protruding from the front were the
sensor pins - especially since the timing diagrams show two spikes that correspond to
those pins.  However, the timing diagram is for Ur Quattro not the newer engines.
 
I'm wondering if I should install a tab similar to the AAN flywheel instead of a pin -
it appears to be a centimeter square peice of steel that is located by two pins - one
pin is where the pin would be and the other just below that.  I wonder if this is a
dealer item.
 
Thanks Cody and Scott for catching this!
 
Ben

  _____  

From: qshipq at aol.com [mailto:qshipq at aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:09 AM
To: benswann at verizon.net; cody at 5000tq.com
Cc: jc at j2c3.com; s-car-list at audifans.com; chris.miller at bqconsultants.com
Subject: Re: [s-cars] No Start ABY/AAN engine - Problem Found?


Ben = STOP!
Here is where I was confused as to what you were doing when I responded the other day.
First there is *only* 1 timing reference pin on the 3B and the AAN (hardware and
software).  If you have no pin on the block side of the FW, that's why your engine
doesn't start.

On the 3B FW there is THE timing reference pin located exactly 35.5 teeth from the -0-
mark on the FW.  IT IS LOCATED ON THE BLOCK SIDE OF THE FW.  To your project, you should
have 2 pickups (AAN/3B/MC = ALL): 1 is the TRP on the block side of the FW, the other
counts the FW teeth (rpm).  

The two long roll pins on the CLUTCH side of the FW on the 3B are old VAG-Com diagnostic
pins, which I haven't seen actually used in almost 20 years.  I used to leave them on if
intact, but most of the used 3B FW I get now have them broken or damaged, so I just take
them out.  They are not needed for the running of any engine, and completely useless
unless you like to collect old VAG-com diagnostic equipment.

Back to the original problem:  If you have no pin on the block side of the FW, your
engine won't start.  I suppose you *could* change the pin and pickup to the trans side
of the FW, but that sounds like a lot of work to reinvent the wheel.  The good news is,
you can pull the starter and put the missing pin back in the FW without pulling the
trans.  If you want to remove the trans, I don't think it's that hard myself, but I've
done several urqs...  Years ago, when I did was testing one of the first prototype
Fidanza FW on an urq, I pulled the trans 6 times in less than 3 days myself (from fully
road tested to FW bolts), without a lift, I got that procedure down to just over an
hour.  Air hammer and air ratchet, drop the subframe (leaving ball joints attached).

I'm starting to see the reason for my confusion.  IME on any and all 3B/MC/v8/urS, no FW
pin on the engine side = no start.  It's just that simple.

HTH

Scott J


-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Swann <benswann at verizon.net>
To: 'John Cody Forbes' <cody at 5000tq.com>
Cc: 'JC' <jc at j2c3.com>; qshipq at aol.com; s-car-list at audifans.com;
chris.miller at bqconsultants.com
Sent: Sun, Oct 3, 2010 8:58 pm
Subject: RE: [s-cars] No Start ABY/AAN engine - Problem Found?


Not based on what I see - there are no pins or protrusions whatsoever on the 

block side

of the flywheel.  The pins go out toward the pressure plate side.  These roll 

pins

protrude out about 1" from the flywheel.  They are on the same side as the pins 

that

retain the pressure plate.  In the stock 3B setup, the pins come out between one 

of

three "void areas of the pressure plate. 



Again, the pins do not come out block-side.  If they did, finding the location 

of where

to drill for a new pin would be a piece of cake.  Instead to do this in situ, I 

need to

drill all the way through the flywheel and drive a pin in all the way through so 

it

comes out - hopefully through an existing hole in the pressure plate and not 

drilling a

new hole.  



I'm not doing anything untill I get a warm fuzzy that I won't damage something 

doing

this.  



I wish it were trivial to do a clutch/flywheel swap.  I know whats involved and 

quite

frankly is the major part of doing the entire job.  You know my setup - I don't 

have

access to a lift, etc. and am a one man show, so this has turned my dream 

project into

somewhat of a nightmare.  The only thing I can say positively is that since 

everything

is new, it won't be as messy and no stuck fasteners.  FWIW, I generally find it 

easier

to pull the entire engine and trans to do a transmission separation than to do 

it in the

car.



Ben