[s-cars] Borescope'ing the oil pick-up

Fri Sep 17 10:12:19 PDT 2010

 Too bad... I just got a set not long ago.

I can tell you that the OE AAN bearings have a hardened upper shell.  I can also tell you that I used OE bearings in my own engine, and that one has made plenty of hp and it worked well for 70k miles.  When I disassembled that engine, those rod bearings were still within specs.

In other words... you'll be fine with the OE bearings.

-----Original Message-----
From: brian hoeft <qweblog at gmail.com>
To: djdawson2 at aol.com
Cc: tim.dahm at gmail.com; s-car-list at audifans.com
Sent: Fri, Sep 17, 2010 11:05 am
Subject: Re: [s-cars] Borescope'ing the oil pick-up

Just called 034 and they no longer stock them. Special order by request only, from Germany, weeks away..

I was told even their big HP cars, like Javads use the OE bearings, but did not confirm if the special coating as subbed out, factory, or otherwise..

If I am looking at OE AAN rod bearings, I would rather support my local shop and get them in half the time..

-brian

On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 10:58 AM,  <djdawson2 at aol.com> wrote:

 Yep... those would be the ones.

-----Original Message-----
From: brian hoeft <qweblog at gmail.com>
To: djdawson2 at aol.com

Cc: tim.dahm at gmail.com; s-car-list at audifans.com
Sent: Fri, Sep 17, 2010 6:53 am
Subject: Re: [s-cars] Borescope'ing the oil pick-up

Dave, you're referring to these here, correct?

I already have red and green Plastigage strips..

I figured it would be prudent to drop the pan first, being I bought this longblock used and dont know it's history, but I would love to get a jump on parts and keep this a one day job.

thanks for your help, Brian

On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 4:58 PM,  <djdawson2 at aol.com> wrote:

 Call 034.  You want the bearings with the hardened upper shell.  The measurements won't matter... you need the standard size if replacing them is even an option.

I say this with certainty because the Audi cranks are so hard, grinding them to an undersize is virtually not doable.

When you replace the bearings, take measurements with plasti-gauge.  It will either come within spec, or it won't if the rod or crank has been damaged.  Make a good visual inspection of the crank surface... run a penny across the bearing surface to feel for marring.

The cranks are so tough that I doubt there will be an issue there... the question will be the rod end.

You might want to start a new thread if you're going to do this work... happy to answer questions along the way if you have them.  This may sound like a huge job, but it really isn't bad at all.  You should be able to be in and out of there in a day... I did this about a year ago, and got it done in about 5 hours from start to running again.

-----Original Message-----
From: brian hoeft <qweblog at gmail.com>

To: Tim Dahm <tim.dahm at gmail.com>
Cc: djdawson2 at aol.com; s-car-list at audifans.com
Sent: Thu, Sep 16, 2010 2:23 pm
Subject: Re: [s-cars] Borescope'ing the oil pick-up

Im a little aggravated at facing reality, but thanks none the less. 

Maybe I should start a new thread, but is there a particular bearing I should start looking for? I dont have measurements yet obviously, but would make sure I can get a particular manufacturers.

On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Tim Dahm <tim.dahm at gmail.com> wrote:

What Dave said..  Experienced it first hand in a SHO (Taurus rustbucket).  Rod knock most apparent when engine is at that load/no load transition.  Louder when oil is hot/thin. 
Stop running engine now.  If you don't want to pull anything apart to diagnose, an oil analysis will tell you the story.  In my case a dip stick inspection with a magnifying loupe showed plenty of metal in the oil.   I was able to slip new rod bearings in with the engine/crank in the car.  The new bearings just about doubled hot oil pressure at idle.  Lasted more than long enough to get rid of that car.

Tim
93/94/94 S4s
91 cq

On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 2:19 PM, <djdawson2 at aol.com> wrote:

 You gotta do what you gotta do.... but if it were me, I wouldn't run that car another second if you suspect a slight rod knock.  There is an outside chance that a bearing is starting to go, and that the crank surface is still good, and the big end of the rod is not out of round.

If the stars align and the above is true, you could change your rod bearings, re-check you clearances, and be down the road for $150 and some elbow grease.

If you run it further, you may be pulling your engine for a rebuild.

-----Original Message-----
From: brian hoeft <qweblog at gmail.com>
To: djdawson2 at aol.com
Cc: fastscirocco_2000 at yahoo.com; s-car-list at audifans.com

Sent: Thu, Sep 16, 2010 1:05 pm
Subject: Re: [s-cars] Borescope'ing the oil pick-up

I agree. What I figured is that things would look good in there with the scope, meaning clean. Soo, I would then know I had to schedule down time in my garage to get it sorted.

Visiting someone I talk with when I get the chance, while I drain my oil (even into a clean jug, so i can pour it back in) and dig on his fancy tools, sounded better to me than dropping the pan and having a tied up garage for a week, being I could delay for a week and beter schedule the time.

-Brian

On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 2:50 PM,  <djdawson2 at aol.com> wrote:

OK....

Now I really don't care about your control arm bushings, or any other front end hardware.  You need to pull your pan, and you need to measure your con rod clearances.  If it is in fact rod noise, you may still have a chance of being able to sort this out with the engine still in the car.

-----Original Message-----
From: brian hoeft <qweblog at gmail.com>
To: djdawson2 at aol.com
Cc: fastscirocco_2000 at yahoo.com; s-car-list at audifans.com

Sent: Thu, Sep 16, 2010 12:40 pm
Subject: Re: [s-cars] Borescope'ing the oil pick-up

//Siiiigh,

Theres a noticable, what sounds to me like a rod knock, slightly below and into 3k RPM..

It doesnt happen at all when cold cold and oil pressure is steady high. It doesnt happen under boost (at least not noticably, yet)(did I say yet..oops) or deceleration. Once warmed and light on the throttle it is quite apparent to me, but I did have to point it out to my friend.

kinda wanna puke, kinda staying optimistic, but im pretty confident Lucas and Amsoil are not the cure..

-Brian

On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 1:00 PM,  <djdawson2 at aol.com> wrote:

 No doubt your experience may have been different, but I got mine out just pulling the front bolts.

Back to the original issue... what makes you think your pickup might have issues?

-----Original Message-----
From: brian hoeft <qweblog at gmail.com>
To: djdawson2 at aol.com
Cc: fastscirocco_2000 at yahoo.com; s-car-list at audifans.com

Sent: Thu, Sep 16, 2010 10:49 am
Subject: Re: [s-cars] Borescope'ing the oil pick-up

Not saying remove the control arms, but break the bolts free & drop down along with the 2 front and 2 rear sub-frame bolts.

I thought the CA bolts went through the sub, into the body. I dont remember getting enough play out of just dropping the front like you suggest. Or maybe I was uncomfortable with the stress I was putting what remained attached.

Whatever the case, I do remember trying to be minimal about removing the oil pan and it turning into more than just two front sub bolts to get it out.

-Brian

On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 12:27 AM,  <djdawson2 at aol.com> wrote:

 I never said anything about removing your control arms...

Seriously, you can get the oil pan out by just dropping the front of the subframe... no need to touch the control arm points.  BTDT...

-----Original Message-----
From: brian hoeft <qweblog at gmail.com>

To: djdawson2 at aol.com
Cc: fastscirocco_2000 at yahoo.com; s-car-list at audifans.com
Sent: Wed, Sep 15, 2010 8:41 pm
Subject: Re: [s-cars] Borescope'ing the oil pick-up

I know, but I just replaced the control arms and im a hardware freak. "Always replace" may not mean always, as I remember you speaking to before, but my policy is to replace them every other time and they've all been re-torqued once..

-Brian

On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 10:32 PM,  <djdawson2 at aol.com> wrote:

 If you've got that sort of concern, I'd just drop the oil pan... it isn't that rough.

-----Original Message-----
From: chris chambers <fastscirocco_2000 at yahoo.com>
To: brian hoeft <qweblog at gmail.com>; liSt <s-car-list at audifans.com>
Sent: Wed, Sep 15, 2010 8:07 pm
Subject: Re: [s-cars] Borescope'ing the oil pick-up

Brian,

17-3 of the AAN engine manual shows the pick up in illustration 17-303, looks to

be in the front to me.
Here is a link where you can download the manual in pdf format.

http://s2-audi.co.uk/workshop/aan/aan.pdf

HTH
Chris

________________________________
From: brian hoeft <qweblog at gmail.com>
To: liSt <s-car-list at audifans.com>
Sent: Wed, September 15, 2010 9:58:13 PM
Subject: [s-cars] Borescope'ing the oil pick-up

Hi list,

I am concerned that I may have a contaminated engine oil pick-up screen.

Wondering if anyone has had any success using a borescope in the oil pan.

I forget, but ithought the AAN pick-up is in the front of the pan, but
forget if the baffles, however minimal, or dimensions make using a borescope
for this task even possible, going in through the drain plug hole.

A colleague of mine has a snap-on borescope with fancy lighting effects, but
if it cant even contort into place, whats the point.

Just typing to know if theres any BTDT for this scenario.

thanks, Brian

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