[s-cars] Thanksgiving Misadventure
Stephen Redford
shr42 at msn.com
Mon Dec 5 22:46:07 PST 2011
Hi Steve, I am also in Seattle. I don't have an "S"Car, I have a Urq-'85 . I had and old British Motorcycle which I road and sometimes raced that had a similar situation with the Access to the Spark plug hole. The cooling fins were too close together around the plug hole. We didn't have a British socket to fit, so we just took a regular "deep" socket from Sears, and hand ground it smaller in diameter so it would slide between the fins . Worked great. SnapOn is real nice but expensive and we wanted to keep it "stock" , so we ground the SearsCraftsman. I agree (but am not a mechanic or machinist or the like) that the plugs should not come out if torqued properly into a Clean Threaded hole. I have heard/seen that sometimes engine-block aluminum can somehow degrade due to heat and vibration and loose integrity , which allows studs to pull out, threads and all, even after Time-cert / helicoil procedures. The AAN is Iron/Steel , so I would try and use the plug hole even with fewer threads if it is cleaned up. Good luck to the project !! ...Stephen Redford "85Urq Seattle
On Dec 5, 2011, at 8:07 PM, Steve Voit wrote:
> Hi Keith & Brian & Bob & Abe:
> I think you're good with 8 threads. Just a hunch.
> Related, I have a theory on AAN plugs. There's been so much talk about
> torquing/re-torquing them, only to result in so many listers having them
> come loose... My own experience is that the plug-well in the head is
> tapered at the bottom such that most all sockets will bind against the head
> casting itself and return an erroneously high torque value when the plug is
> really not very tight at all.
> My hand-me-down socket binds, my son's Craftsman socket binds, the hardware
> store one binds, the tool truck one binds... it was not until I bought a
> Snap-On one from the truck that happened to be at the filling station did I
> find a socket that clears reliably. They have thinner walls and an overall
> thinner diameter.
> So that's my $.02 -- I think I have perfected plug-dom. Put it in, tighten
> to 20-22, and drive!
> Steve, comin' out of hiding and sharing tight commentary in Seattle, Voit
> 95.5 S6 140k
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 18:37:51 -0500
> From: Keith Franchetti <skidfranc at gmail.com>
> To: s-car list <s-car-list at audifans.com>
> Cc: Robert Rossato <rossato.qlist at gmail.com>, Abe Berman
> <yellowcuda at gmail.com>
> Subject: [s-cars] Thanksgiving Misadventure
> Message-ID:
> <CAGfhCbH-dnhCTEwRavxqKStxyJG7+hX2vpz2x82ZfUMbGNfcGA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi All-
>
> Quick update. Car came back home today finally via AAA, without my
> even having to be there for pickup or here for dropoff!!! Excellent
> service, I have to say. And very good service on the phone too.
>
> I gave a big update last Sunday, which I guess got stuck with the
> moderator since it was too big. I guess it's still stuck in the
> moderator's filter.
>
> Looks like your were right Bob, in saying the valve cover gasket must
> me shot. What I thought was fuel all over the place is now looking
> more like oil. I don't smell any gas in the oil.
>
> Though the threads on the spark plug are badly melted on one side, I
> used the thread chaser in the spark plug hole, and I seem to have a
> good 8 threads holding the plug in. (Though I'm not completely
> convinced I have a nice surface to seat the plug against). I checked
> one of the undamaged plugs, and that seems to have about 11 full turns
> holding it in. Who thinks 8 threads will be enough? What is the
> downside to trying it with 8. I was thinking idle it for a while.
> Check torque. If it has held, drive gently for a few minutes. Check
> torque again. Drive a little longer and harder, etc. until I feel
> convinced it's going to hold torque.
>
> Plan is to try to change out the valve cover gasket, vacuum out the
> combustion chamber as best I can, put a new boot on (replacing the
> completely destroyed one), but find out if the old cold is working or
> dead. Change coil too if need be (if I can figure out the wiring).
> See if she fires up.
>
> I might find out the damage to the spark plug hole is significant
> enough that I need to try the time-sert solution, maybe even pulling
> the head along the way. But does anyone see a huge potential downside
> to trying this first?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Keith
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 22:50:34 -0500
> From: brian hoeft <qweblog at gmail.com>
> To: Keith Franchetti <skidfranc at gmail.com>
> Cc: Robert Rossato <rossato.qlist at gmail.com>, Abe Berman
> <yellowcuda at gmail.com>, s-car list <s-car-list at audifans.com>
> Subject: Re: [s-cars] Thanksgiving Misadventure
> Message-ID:
> <CALc=9XhhLUZBv3rriL7BKkASJo5pEjpoiWNQUoM4aWuBDgM1oA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I am AAA platinum plus and wouldn't have it any other way, great insurance.
>
> Before I forget, regarding your valve cover. I recently replaced a valve
> cover gasket set on an AAN and it was quite frustrating. The design of the
> gasket doesn't lend itself to a confident seating of the gasket unless
> maneuvered into place well. Do yourself a favor and get an OE one from the
> dealer. Meisterstatz (was almost plastic) and Victor Reinz (didn't fit, too
> big) were terrible for the AAN and the dealer hit was double at 40 or 50
> bucks if I remember, but well worth it for fit and texture of the gasket.
>
> Regarding your other question; with 8 full threads I would expect it to
> hold, but if it does pop, you're kind of in the same position you were
> expecting, so I'd say the risk/reward potential is worth it. I would make
> sure it's as clean as possible from the seat, to the threads, to the
> cylinder. I would also sacrifice an old spark plug or two to try and test
> the seat and threads. Also, i'm hoping all the negative talk on a helicoil
> kit is because it's a spark plug application. We heli-coil stripped holes
> all the time at the shop with great success.
>
> Also, I've never had it come to this for concern of conductivity and future
> removal, but I know of some tech's (Ford in particular, SVT Lightning at
> that) that use high temp loc-tite as a preventative measure for particular
> models. Personally I love my lubro-moly anti-seize and would hope you can
> get your (?21?23? ft.lbs.) torque on and keep it that way.
>
> I've never seen a coil live through something sounding that bad, but if
> it's blown the wiring is very simple, especially if you're only doing one.
>
> Good luck Keith
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 6:37 PM, Keith Franchetti <skidfranc at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi All-
>>
>> Quick update. Car came back home today finally via AAA, without my
>> even having to be there for pickup or here for dropoff!!! Excellent
>> service, I have to say. And very good service on the phone too.
>>
>> I gave a big update last Sunday, which I guess got stuck with the
>> moderator since it was too big. I guess it's still stuck in the
>> moderator's filter.
>>
>> Looks like your were right Bob, in saying the valve cover gasket must
>> me shot. What I thought was fuel all over the place is now looking
>> more like oil. I don't smell any gas in the oil.
>>
>> Though the threads on the spark plug are badly melted on one side, I
>> used the thread chaser in the spark plug hole, and I seem to have a
>> good 8 threads holding the plug in. (Though I'm not completely
>> convinced I have a nice surface to seat the plug against). I checked
>> one of the undamaged plugs, and that seems to have about 11 full turns
>> holding it in. Who thinks 8 threads will be enough? What is the
>> downside to trying it with 8. I was thinking idle it for a while.
>> Check torque. If it has held, drive gently for a few minutes. Check
>> torque again. Drive a little longer and harder, etc. until I feel
>> convinced it's going to hold torque.
>>
>> Plan is to try to change out the valve cover gasket, vacuum out the
>> combustion chamber as best I can, put a new boot on (replacing the
>> completely destroyed one), but find out if the old cold is working or
>> dead. Change coil too if need be (if I can figure out the wiring).
>> See if she fires up.
>>
>> I might find out the damage to the spark plug hole is significant
>> enough that I need to try the time-sert solution, maybe even pulling
>> the head along the way. But does anyone see a huge potential downside
>> to trying this first?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Keith
>> _______________________________________________
>> S-CAR-List mailing list
>> http://audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list
>> http://www.audifans.com/kb/List_information
>>
>
>
>
> --
> * -Brian*
> [blinders off&ear <http://208.53.138.125:8068/>plugs out]
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 06:43:13 -0500
> From: Keith Franchetti <skidfranc at gmail.com>
> To: brian hoeft <qweblog at gmail.com>
> Cc: Robert Rossato <rossato.qlist at gmail.com>, Abe Berman
> <yellowcuda at gmail.com>, s-car list <s-car-list at audifans.com>
> Subject: Re: [s-cars] Thanksgiving Misadventure
> Message-ID: <1DD38827-E059-42D3-BD0A-7AC836C54987 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Thanks much, Brian! Great stuff. I'll keep you posted.
>
> Keith
>
> On Dec 4, 2011, at 10:50 PM, brian hoeft <qweblog at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I am AAA platinum plus and wouldn't have it any other way, great
> insurance.
>>
>> Before I forget, regarding your valve cover. I recently replaced a valve
> cover gasket set on an AAN and it was quite frustrating. The design of the
> gasket doesn't lend itself to a confident seating of the gasket unless
> maneuvered into place well. Do yourself a favor and get an OE one from the
> dealer. Meisterstatz (was almost plastic) and Victor Reinz (didn't fit, too
> big) were terrible for the AAN and the dealer hit was double at 40 or 50
> bucks if I remember, but well worth it for fit and texture of the gasket.
>>
>> Regarding your other question; with 8 full threads I would expect it to
> hold, but if it does pop, you're kind of in the same position you were
> expecting, so I'd say the risk/reward potential is worth it. I would make
> sure it's as clean as possible from the seat, to the threads, to the
> cylinder. I would also sacrifice an old spark plug or two to try and test
> the seat and threads. Also, i'm hoping all the negative talk on a helicoil
> kit is because it's a spark plug application. We heli-coil stripped holes
> all the time at the shop with great success.
>>
>> Also, I've never had it come to this for concern of conductivity and
> future removal, but I know of some tech's (Ford in particular, SVT Lightning
> at that) that use high temp loc-tite as a preventative measure for
> particular models. Personally I love my lubro-moly anti-seize and would hope
> you can get your (?21?23? ft.lbs.) torque on and keep it that way.
>>
>> I've never seen a coil live through something sounding that bad, but if
> it's blown the wiring is very simple, especially if you're only doing one.
>>
>> Good luck Keith
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 6:37 PM, Keith Franchetti <skidfranc at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Hi All-
>>
>> Quick update. Car came back home today finally via AAA, without my
>> even having to be there for pickup or here for dropoff!!! Excellent
>> service, I have to say. And very good service on the phone too.
>>
>> I gave a big update last Sunday, which I guess got stuck with the
>> moderator since it was too big. I guess it's still stuck in the
>> moderator's filter.
>>
>> Looks like your were right Bob, in saying the valve cover gasket must
>> me shot. What I thought was fuel all over the place is now looking
>> more like oil. I don't smell any gas in the oil.
>>
>> Though the threads on the spark plug are badly melted on one side, I
>> used the thread chaser in the spark plug hole, and I seem to have a
>> good 8 threads holding the plug in. (Though I'm not completely
>> convinced I have a nice surface to seat the plug against). I checked
>> one of the undamaged plugs, and that seems to have about 11 full turns
>> holding it in. Who thinks 8 threads will be enough? What is the
>> downside to trying it with 8. I was thinking idle it for a while.
>> Check torque. If it has held, drive gently for a few minutes. Check
>> torque again. Drive a little longer and harder, etc. until I feel
>> convinced it's going to hold torque.
>>
>> Plan is to try to change out the valve cover gasket, vacuum out the
>> combustion chamber as best I can, put a new boot on (replacing the
>> completely destroyed one), but find out if the old cold is working or
>> dead. Change coil too if need be (if I can figure out the wiring).
>> See if she fires up.
>>
>> I might find out the damage to the spark plug hole is significant
>> enough that I need to try the time-sert solution, maybe even pulling
>> the head along the way. But does anyone see a huge potential downside
>> to trying this first?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Keith
>> _______________________________________________
>> S-CAR-List mailing list
>> http://audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list
>> http://www.audifans.com/kb/List_information
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> -Brian
>> [blinders off&earplugs out]
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> S-CAR-List mailing list
> S-CAR-List at audifans.com
> http://audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list
>
>
> End of S-CAR-List Digest, Vol 98, Issue 6
> *****************************************
>
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Stephen R.
shr42 at msn.com
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