[s-cars] Off topic - New Volvo S60 ? - Drat and double DRAT!

[LL - NY]

I imagine that the clutch packs would wear at less than fully locked
conditions then, eh?

I guess on that behalf, I'd vote Torsen (flame suit on).

On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 9:27 AM, John Cody Forbes <cody at 5000tq.com> wrote:

> VW's Haldex self study manual, everything you want to know:
> http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_206.pdf
>
>
> It's simple really. The Haldex is an electronically controlled clutch.
> There is no center diff at all. When the Haldex clutch is disengaged the
> rear wheels are not connected to the engine at all. When the clutch is
> engaged the rear wheels are completely locked to the engine. It can slip at
> any rate in between locked and unlocked. Power is therefore variable between
> 100/0 and 50/50 front to rear.
>
> -Cody (mobile)
>
> On Jan 5, 2011, at 9:04 AM, Taka Mizutani <t44tqtro at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Scott-
> > Does that mean that Haldex is either fully engaged at whatever the torque
> > split is with it engaged or not at all?
> >
> > I guess I don't really understand the Haldex system and how it works.
> >
> > Now I have to find someone that makes a Haldex box for the Volvo, if I
> > decide to keep the Volvo. Otherwise, I'll get a BMW 5 series xi with a
> stick
> > or a diesel SUV.
> >
> > Your opinion on the Porsche Cayenne AWD or the VW Touraeg (which I think
> is
> > the same setup)?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Taka
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 12:18 PM, <qshipq at aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >>  The Haldex system can be modified, and the torque can be handled with
> >> that modification.  Haldex makes performance upgrade boxes for the R32
> and
> >> TT (
> >>
> http://www.europeancarweb.com/features/epcp_0505_haldex_lsc_performance_upgrade/index.html).
>  I understand that we will have one of these modified units at Steamboat
> >> this year in an R32 (former B5S4 owner), so more to come on that effort.
> >> The 'problem' with Haldex in any car, including the Volvos, is that it's
> a
> >> coupler, not a differential.  So, it's either partially or fully locked
> OR
> >> completely unlocked (braking, cruising, etc).  So the 'modified' units
> will
> >> still uncouple during braking and/or other sensored inputs.
> >>
> >> The modification is to the CAN bus controller, which gives 3 levels of
> lock
> >> on most synchro systems 6/9/12v.  6 being partial lockup and 12 being
> fully
> >> locked up.  I understand the newer systems give a much larger range of
> >> lockup vs voltage.  I spent many weeks with a friend's XC90 AWD 2.5T
> with a
> >> faulty rear Haldex unit.  This made for a FWD ride for many weeks, then
> >> after the repair, the awd system was restored to normal.  I'm not a fan
> of
> >> synchro systems (specifically non-center differential 4x4's) of any
> type, as
> >> the characteristics of the car change much more dramatically than in a
> full
> >> time awd vehicle.  I have driven a few S60's and the V70 in 6speed trim,
> and
> >> they are a lot of fun, 2.5L turbo 300hp gives a lot of torque, and they
> have
> >> great brakes to boot.  I don't ever see them being a real competitor for
> a
> >> full time quattro, but it will certainly keep up with any Haldex
> 'quattro'
> >> or '4motion' VAG car.
> >>
> >> To the question, "can the Haldex take the torque" of full time, the
> answer
> >> is yes, in fact Haldex designed it that way.  It was the choice of the
> >> manufacturers to use it as a synchro application.  Our former S2 rally
> >> driver has a Volvo shop, and we had spoken extensively to Haldex
> regarding a
> >> rally S60 with a modified Haldex, and they were very supportive to the
> idea,
> >> and had no qualms about the unit being able to handle a full time race
> >> environment.
> >>
> >> My folks have a year old 530ix, and I find it to be much more
> quattro-like
> >> than Haldex like in it's snow manners.  BMW certainly complicated the
> awd
> >> concept, but the new RS5 seems to follow the same path in engineering
> and
> >> supplier, so I guess the 'new' generation of awd can't be bested or
> ignored
> >> by Audi either.
> >>
> >> All good things for German car buyers.  I was surprised that Haldex
> chose
> >> to not do the Haldex-over-center-diff awd that was to be Haldex IV, but
> that
> >> might have been strictly a cost thing.  Having two vehicles with LSD
> >> over-center-diff vehicles (1992 v8 with electronic plate- over center
> diff
> >> awd, and 1994 Supercharged Landcruiser with VC over center diff awd with
> >> locked center diff over-ride ability), I find them much more civilized
> in
> >> all applications of power/slip than the Haldex systems.
> >>
> >> My .02
> >> Scott "Torsen Boy" J
> >> Lockers
> >> Torsens
> >> VC...  Gots them all in the driveway.....
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: pkrasusky at ups.com
> >> To: s-car-list at audifans.com
> >> Cc: mtgadbois at aol.com
> >> Sent: Tue, Jan 4, 2011 9:49 am
> >> Subject: [s-cars] Off topic - New Volvo S60 ? - Drat and double DRAT!
> >>
> >> Mark fargin sneaky bastid'd:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> <<<Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2011 15:56:30 -0500
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: mtgadbois at aol.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Subject: Re: [s-cars] Off topic - New Volvo S60 ?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I participated in Volvo's "come on out and beat one."
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I drove it in a head-to-head comparison against an Audi A4 and it was
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> impressive.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The Audi was a bit more imprecise.  I also did a lap in Volvo's S60
> autocross
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> car.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Came in 3rd or 4th out of 300 drivers. That car was impressive too but
> it had
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> well-used race rubber on it.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I'd consider one but I'm not in the market right now to drop $50K on a
> sedan.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> BTW last year was weird - got invites from BMW (now have a new wedge),
> Cadillac
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> and Volvo.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Mark near Chicago>>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Drats!  Foiled!  My invite musta gotten "lost in the mail".  D'oh 8-)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Man, aren't those events just the best?  Good stuff.  Great to hear you
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> represented and had a baul.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Agree w/ sagedom of JC 'n Taka - I'd love a Volvo product but for 'the
> reasons'
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> not to.  Shame.  Seen a MkII XC70 do quite well @ a local winterx
> yearses ago
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> tho - guess it can, just mustn't feel good in doing so heh heh.  The
> ones I've
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> rented have been damn good cars - but - I've also found their
> Kryptonite, which,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> is never good.  JNR.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Schpeaking of winterx, fawk - I just learned the NERSCCA's hosting
> winterx
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> turn-right-5-miles from me on 1/15.  Things that make you go hmmm.
>  Alumibitch?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Keep up the good (JNR) werk out there men.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -Paul
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
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