[s-cars] comments appreciated

Wed Aug 29 17:16:59 PDT 2012

I beg to disagree. I've driven several Vipers on the street and track, and don't have any desire to own one. The clutch travel is just silly, to the point that you have to decide whether to set up the seat for the gas and brake or the clutch- pick one.  For Autox you'll only need second, so you dont have to worry about it, but road racing gets interesting if there are low speed turns. Heat from the driver's kick panel will burn your ankle through good racing shoes and socks- forget jumping in with boat shoes and no socks. Handling is almost 100% a factor of throttle position, and "handful" doesn't begin to cover it. 

Don't get me wrong, they are great fun for short distances and seeing a group of them driven flat out by instructors at Lime Rock while terrorizing Chrysler bigwigs is still in my top 10 automotive experiences ever, but it's very much the BFH in automotive form- I prefer something a tad more nuanced (and own a big block 69 Mustang). 

On Aug 29, 2012, at 7:39 PM, "Jerry Scott" <jerryscott at wispertel.net> wrote:

> Lee
> 
> I just sold a 97 GTS Viper which had a few road course track miles.  I can
> say that I was never passed by another street legal car while I was on the
> track.  Occasionally I would get passed by a dedicated track car with 900
> hp, but the Viper ruled king for many years as the fastest street legal car.
> With no traction control and no ABS, the car was a handful to drive, but had
> great handling and acceleration.  If you can find a fixer-upper for a track
> car, you will experience one of the best muscle cars ever built.
> 
> Jerry
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com
> [mailto:s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com] On Behalf Of Taka Mizutani
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 4:19 PM
> To: lee at wheelman.com
> Cc: S-car List
> Subject: Re: [s-cars] comments appreciated
> 
> Lee-
> I guess you don't want a BMW, huh? :-)
> 
> 968s have already hit bottom and are going up- they didn't sell well new and
> thus are getting very hard to find, especially in good condition without
> 150k+ miles. The short belt service interval makes them undesirable IME. I
> think you're far better off with a 986 Boxster, especially since you can
> find a 50-70k miles Boxster S for the same money as a nice 968 ($15-17k). I
> won't belabor the IMS issue since you know about it. Also, the glass hatch
> of the 968 is huge $$$ to replace if it is ever broken.
> 
> Early 996s are the 3.4L cars, '99-01 for the US market- the '02 is the later
> 3.6L car with the exterior facelift. The interior facelift was in '01.
> Again, you can't buy a nice 3.6L 996 for $20k. What is your ultimate budget,
> how much cargo space do you really need in a "fun" car?
> 
> For autox, the NC Miata is your best bet- getting a Touring with the LSD is
> the way to go and you'll have a competitive C Stock car. The Boxster and
> Boxster S (986 chassis) are probably your next best bets, with albeit higher
> running costs. A 996 is not going to be a good choice for autox, nor the
> 968, unless you're talking about Street Prepared (possibly, I'm not sure).
> For track use, any of these cars are fine- just need a rollbar extender for
> the 986.
> 
> Are you open to other alternatives? You didn't mention the big giant killer
> of a car- C5 Corvette. Buy one for $15-20k (coupe or FRC, not a Z06), great
> A stock autox car, great track car, low running costs, lots of cargo space,
> lots of power, will smoke a 986 or 996 without a problem. You can't say that
> you're driving a snobby German car, but realistically, no one is going to be
> impressed by a $15-25k Boxster or 996, either. The weaknesses of the
> C5 are very well known and not substantial (some cars have issues with EBCM,
> need upgraded wheel bearings and radiator for heavy track use, need brake
> ducts and hoses for heavy track use, remove the electric column lock if it's
> still there, replace seats for heavy track use). Until you're running slicks
> and aero, you won't need a dry sump unless you're running tracks that have
> very long left handers and you're pushing maximum lateral g because you're
> just *that good*.
> 
> Why not a 2-seater? A 996 isn't going to carry anyone in the back besides
> small children.
> 
> For all practical purposes, you've outlined an E46 M3, like it or not.
> 
> Taka
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Lee Levitt <lee at wheelman.com> wrote:
> 
>> Folks,
>> 
>> 5 years ago I asked this group for recommendations on a "play" car -- 
>> summer driver and autocross/track day car.
>> 
>> Pretty much everyone responded with an "M" car recommendation.
>> 
>> So I picked up an '01 A4 quattro avant, 1.8t. Had a *lot* of fun with 
>> it over the past five years.
>> 
>> Looks like my son will be moving out of his '97 A6 and into this '01 
>> A4 sometime soon...which leaves me without a summer play car...
>> 
>> I'm back for more recommendations, and given my track record, I'm not 
>> going to listen again (particularly if the answer is "M" car). :)
>> 
>> Here's the question...same criteria as before...still not interested 
>> in an "M" car. Thinking about a Porsche 968 or perhaps an early 996 C2.
>> 
>> 968s are relatively inexpensive to purchase (~$10K) and reasonably 
>> competitive in autocross. I believe they've already hit the bottom of 
>> their depreciation curve. Older car, starting to age slightly, not yet 
>> difficult to keep on the road...
>> 
>> Early (2002) 996s are inexpensive to purchase ($20K+) and also 
>> reasonably competitive, in their classes. Newer car, more to break, 
>> potentially more expensive when it breaks. I know about the IMS and 
>> RMS problems, would look for a car with upgraded seals...
>> 
>> Again, primary use will be daily driver in the summer. 968 would 
>> probably see some increasing (and shared) use as an autocross/track 
>> car by several people (me, son, daughter, friend with 997TT, his 
>> sons), and eventually replaced as DD by later 996 or 997. If I went 
>> the 996 route, we would eventually add a 944 or 968 as shared
> autocross/track car.
>> 
>> Virtually no seat time in either yet, working on that now. I've spent 
>> a lot of time on Rennlist, know (intellectually) the basics, but have 
>> no day to day experience with either of these cars...
>> 
>> Boxster would be an obvious, but non-viable alternative...not really 
>> interested in pure two seat convertible...Winter car remains '99 A6 wagon.
>> 
>> I know some of you have P-car afflictions in addition to our shared 
>> Audi affliction.
>> 
>> Comments appreciated.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Lee
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