[s-cars] Stripped wheel bolt

[Cody Forbes]

I have one quick addition to that. Don't take my comment about the value of our cars wrong; I have nothing against bottom dollar cars. The least expensive running car I have ever purchased, my white 5ktq for $700, has over the last 4 or so years been the most reliable and most useful car I've ever owned. For the record it's got 21 wheel bolts including the one in the trunk.

-Cody
(Sent from my phone, if a word doesn't fit blame Siri)

On Mar 26, 2012, at 11:51 PM, Cody Forbes <cody at 5000tq.com> wrote:

> I don't think there was much respect there at all. I suppose none was due, but I digress. If you care to read at no point did I condone nor suggest that any insert was safe nor advisable. In fact I clearly stated that I agreed with you. The only post where I may have sounded as if I was condoning it was the one where I cautioned against it while not calling anybody out. So I told an anecdotal story, but I still never said I believed in running a "hack" repair. I apologize for offending you so greatly, but geez dude you need to relax some. Your personal experience may differ from that of others, as may mine, and that's no reason to go off on somebody like that.
> 
> What would I do if one came to my shop? To be honest and blunt, I don't work on the types of cars where that is a possibility. I don't work on old cars, I don't work on cheap cars, and my services can simply not be afforded by the average person let alone the one that might want to heli-coil a hub. The torque wrench I use to put wheel bolts in with cost more than many of the cars we listers drive, including my 5000's. In my shop we use no impact tools, no air wrenches, no electric impacts, simply NOTHING that can spin a bolt faster and/or with more force than a human hand (not just on wheels, these tools are not allowed in my building*). Bolts (or hubs as the case may be) don't get damaged in my shop. If one did we replace the hub at the technicians cost. If it happens more than once I get to hire a new tech.
> 
> 
> -Cody
> (Sent from my phone, if a word doesn't fit blame Siri)
> 
> * - We keep a big impact gun in a cabinet for the rare occasion that the job simply can not be accomplished without it.
> 
> On Mar 26, 2012, at 11:04 PM, Scott Justusson <qshipq at aol.com> wrote:
> 
>> With all due respect, luck is either a tythe to the church after the fact, or a higher power determined it's just not your time.  In 30+ years of motorsport competition, hundreds of track days, I've seen the 'other' side of what you speak.   Wheel bolts overtorqued, undertorqued, no longer stretching, all causing catastrophic wheel failure, luckily I've also only witnessed car and ego damage from it. The rule is this hack is negligence and unsafe, any exceptions are just stories where fate didn't meet with stupidity.  Ignore your luck and supidity for a second, and think liability.  Helicoil that hub, and it fails, or put 4 bolts instead of 5, and Lucifer's Law (Murphy's dark side) says the accident caused 4 world famous neurosurgeons on the way to a conference in a rental car, to perish.  When the insurance company does the investigation, your life as you know it ends.  As I learned years ago in a memorable corporate risk management seminar, the direct quote was, blatant n
> egligence is defined as when the living envy the dead.
>> 
>> This isn't a debate, the comment of timesert better than helicoil just adds to the absurdity.  If a time-sert hub came into your shop, what would you do?  Thankfully I've never seen one, but I've certainly read the trades that says I'm liable if I see this and do nothing.  I lurk the forums to hopefully head off this confrontation.  I won't say it's dumb, I say it's stupid to even speak of the exception?
>> 
>> Any insert repair into a hub is dumb, stupid, and consciously choosing an all-in position of 'bad stuff'.  I'm not impressed with your story, because you *chose* to be that idiot at the expense of risk to your family and fellow competitors.   
>> 
>> I really don't care to hear more?
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Scott J
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Cody Forbes <cody at 5000tq.com>
>> To: Scott Justusson <qshipq at aol.com>
>> Cc: haroldmccomas <haroldmccomas at comcast.net>; s-car-list <s-car-list at audifans.com>
>> Sent: Mon, Mar 26, 2012 9:03 pm
>> Subject: Re: [s-cars] Stripped wheel bolt
>> 
>> While I agree with not using an insert on a hub, I disagree with the 
>> proclamation that missing a wheel bolt is certain to end in bad stuff. Do I 
>> suggest leaving one off just for the hell of it? No. However...
>> 
>> I'm not proud of this, but when I bought my black 5ktq it only had 4 bolts in 
>> the left rear wheel and it took me about 6 years before I got around to buying a 
>> tap to fix the damaged first thread. In the meantime I *added* about 400hp, put 
>> over 50,000 miles on the car, did maybe 100 drag strip passes with full on 
>> smokey diff-locks-on all wheel burnouts, and multiple track days - once the 
>> speedometer even found its way to where the digits stopped. See I had BBS wheels 
>> with center caps and simply forgot about that missing bolt and nobody in tech 
>> ever bothered to pull the center cap to check them. I changed the tires a couple 
>> times and each time would have a "oh sh*t" moment and SWEAR I would buy a tap 
>> next time a tool guy came in to the shop, then I'd forget and go on my merry way 
>> for a year or so. It wasn't until I got different wheels without covers, and 
>> mature quite a lot during a time when the car sat for about two years 
>> surrounding my sons birth, did I remember and finally fix it. Like I said, I'm 
>> not pleased with myself for the happenings, but it happened and never once did I 
>> have an issue.
>> 
>> -Cody
>> (Sent from my phone, if a word doesn't fit blame Siri)
>> 
>> On Mar 26, 2012, at 11:36 AM, Scott Justusson <qshipq at aol.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> IME, when the first bolt falls out, the others are usually not far behind.  
>> The reason is, when the a rotor is not evenly clamped, it usually manifests 
>> failure identification by subsequently removing the 'other' wheel bolts "without 
>> the aid of wrenches" (-tm Pizzo).  Er, for the very same reason every wheel 
>> should be tightened with a torque wrench?  Used S car hubs are readily available 
>> for 50 bux, I put a few in my 4kq 5 bolt conversion at less than that price....
>>> 
>>> I'm up for creative fixes, but an insert into a wheel hub?!  For real?!  IMO, 
>> that's just a sure way to get me out of lurk mode reading the stupidity of that 
>> recommendation.
>>> 
>>> SJ
>>> 
> _______________________________________________
> S-CAR-List mailing list
> http://audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list
> http://www.audifans.com/kb/List_information