[s-cars] Stripped wheel bolt

Tue Mar 27 06:42:07 PDT 2012

Antiseize on your lug bolts should keep the threads from getting buggered up
in the first place.

> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 23:51:22 -0400
> From: Cody Forbes <cody at 5000tq.com>
> To: Scott Justusson <qshipq at aol.com>
> Cc: "s-car-list at audifans.com" <s-car-list at audifans.com>,
> "haroldmccomas at comcast.net" <haroldmccomas at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [s-cars] Stripped wheel bolt
> Message-ID: <9982BB7F-7E5B-4C5E-9705-ADD15A7AE7D0 at 5000tq.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> I don't think there was much respect there at all. I suppose none was due, but
> I digress. If you care to read at no point did I condone nor suggest that any
> insert was safe nor advisable. In fact I clearly stated that I agreed with
> you. The only post where I may have sounded as if I was condoning it was the
> one where I cautioned against it while not calling anybody out. So I told an
> anecdotal story, but I still never said I believed in running a "hack" repair.
> I apologize for offending you so greatly, but geez dude you need to relax
> some. Your personal experience may differ from that of others, as may mine,
> and that's no reason to go off on somebody like that.
> 
> What would I do if one came to my shop? To be honest and blunt, I don't work
> on the types of cars where that is a possibility. I don't work on old cars, I
> don't work on cheap cars, and my services can simply not be afforded by the
> average person let alone the one that might want to heli-coil a hub. The
> torque wrench I use to put wheel bolts in with cost more than many of the cars
> we listers drive, including my 5000's. In my shop we use no impact tools, no
> air wrenches, no electric impacts, simply NOTHING that can spin a bolt faster
> and/or with more force than a human hand (not just on wheels, these tools are
> not allowed in my building*). Bolts (or hubs as the case may be) don't get
> damaged in my shop. If one did we replace the hub at the technicians cost. If
> it happens more than once I get to hire a new tech.
> 
> 
> -Cody
> (Sent from my phone, if a word doesn't fit blame Siri)
> 
> * - We keep a big impact gun in a cabinet for the rare occasion that the job
> simply can not be accomplished without it.
> 
> On Mar 26, 2012, at 11:04 PM, Scott Justusson <qshipq at aol.com> wrote:
> 
>> With all due respect, luck is either a tythe to the church after the fact, or
>> a higher power determined it's just not your time.  In 30+ years of
>> motorsport competition, hundreds of track days, I've seen the 'other' side of
>> what you speak.   Wheel bolts overtorqued, undertorqued, no longer
>> stretching, all causing catastrophic wheel failure, luckily I've also only
>> witnessed car and ego damage from it. The rule is this hack is negligence and
>> unsafe, any exceptions are just stories where fate didn't meet with
>> stupidity.  Ignore your luck and supidity for a second, and think liability.
>> Helicoil that hub, and it fails, or put 4 bolts instead of 5, and Lucifer's
>> Law (Murphy's dark side) says the accident caused 4 world famous
>> neurosurgeons on the way to a conference in a rental car, to perish.  When
>> the insurance company does the investigation, your life as you know it ends.
>> As I learned years ago in a memorable corporate risk management seminar, the
>> direct quote was, blatant n
>  egligence is defined as when the living envy the dead.
>> 
>> This isn't a debate, the comment of timesert better than helicoil just adds
>> to the absurdity.  If a time-sert hub came into your shop, what would you do?
>> Thankfully I've never seen one, but I've certainly read the trades that says
>> I'm liable if I see this and do nothing.  I lurk the forums to hopefully head
>> off this confrontation.  I won't say it's dumb, I say it's stupid to even
>> speak of the exception?
>> 
>> Any insert repair into a hub is dumb, stupid, and consciously choosing an
>> all-in position of 'bad stuff'.  I'm not impressed with your story, because
>> you *chose* to be that idiot at the expense of risk to your family and fellow
>> competitors.   
>> 
>> I really don't care to hear more?
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Scott J
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Cody Forbes <cody at 5000tq.com>
>> To: Scott Justusson <qshipq at aol.com>
>> Cc: haroldmccomas <haroldmccomas at comcast.net>; s-car-list
>> <s-car-list at audifans.com>
>> Sent: Mon, Mar 26, 2012 9:03 pm
>> Subject: Re: [s-cars] Stripped wheel bolt
>> 
>> While I agree with not using an insert on a hub, I disagree with the
>> proclamation that missing a wheel bolt is certain to end in bad stuff. Do I
>> suggest leaving one off just for the hell of it? No. However...
>> 
>> I'm not proud of this, but when I bought my black 5ktq it only had 4 bolts in
>> the left rear wheel and it took me about 6 years before I got around to
>> buying a 
>> tap to fix the damaged first thread. In the meantime I *added* about 400hp,
>> put 
>> over 50,000 miles on the car, did maybe 100 drag strip passes with full on
>> smokey diff-locks-on all wheel burnouts, and multiple track days - once the
>> speedometer even found its way to where the digits stopped. See I had BBS
>> wheels 
>> with center caps and simply forgot about that missing bolt and nobody in tech
>> ever bothered to pull the center cap to check them. I changed the tires a
>> couple 
>> times and each time would have a "oh sh*t" moment and SWEAR I would buy a tap
>> next time a tool guy came in to the shop, then I'd forget and go on my merry
>> way 
>> for a year or so. It wasn't until I got different wheels without covers, and
>> mature quite a lot during a time when the car sat for about two years
>> surrounding my sons birth, did I remember and finally fix it. Like I said,
>> I'm 
>> not pleased with myself for the happenings, but it happened and never once
>> did I 
>> have an issue.
>> 
>> -Cody
>> (Sent from my phone, if a word doesn't fit blame Siri)
>> 
>> On Mar 26, 2012, at 11:36 AM, Scott Justusson <qshipq at aol.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> IME, when the first bolt falls out, the others are usually not far behind.
>> The reason is, when the a rotor is not evenly clamped, it usually manifests
>> failure identification by subsequently removing the 'other' wheel bolts
>> "without 
>> the aid of wrenches" (-tm Pizzo).  Er, for the very same reason every wheel
>> should be tightened with a torque wrench?  Used S car hubs are readily
>> available 
>> for 50 bux, I put a few in my 4kq 5 bolt conversion at less than that
>> price....
>>> 
>>> I'm up for creative fixes, but an insert into a wheel hub?!  For real?!
>>> IMO, 
>> that's just a sure way to get me out of lurk mode reading the stupidity of
>> that 
>> recommendation.
>>> 
>>> SJ
>>> 
> 
> 
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