[s-cars] Out of town buyer.

[Bruce Mendel]

Wire system closes at 2PM EST, no?

As a dealer, I'm required to get DL# to issue a temp tag. As far as it 
being useful, it's just one more point of data you can check. When you 
call buyer's insurance company or agent to verify insurance has been 
placed on the car (and that's a pretty sophisticated scam if they fake 
that one), you can verify that DL# is attached to that insurance policy 
which is attached to that buyer. Can't hurt to verify.

As a general rule, holding title is a bad idea, so that's good advice. 
But it's really bad only if you are holding a blank title still in your 
name with the back not completed to buyer, meaning technically you still 
own the car. If you hold it only as security interest, and it has been 
completed in full in the buyer's name, and you give buyer a copy 
(stamped "COPY" in large letters on it), then you should not be liable 
any more than a bank as a lienholder is liable when holding a title 
filled out in your name. Of course if sale falls through you have to go 
get a duplicate title, but odds are very low that will happen if you did 
all your other checking.

True story: Sold a cool old AMG Mercedes 560SEL on ebay like 8 years 
ago. Never heard from buyer, no payment, no nothing, ebay no help like 
usual. About three weeks later, on a cold December night, I get a call 
around 10PM. Hi, it's Mike, I won your 560SEL on ebay....can you come 
pick me up from the Philadelphia airport? I want to pick up the car.

Uh, sure, I'll be right over. I call my mechanic and ask him to go over 
to shop just to make sure everything looks OK for test drive and stuff, 
although it should be.

I go to Philly airport. Driving along arrivals lane, I see tall white 
haired guy, long ponytail hair, in t-shirt, jeans, and sandals. No 
luggage at all. Just a backpack, but it was weird, like usual big 
backpack straps but on his back attached to the straps was like a 
man-purse, looks like a backpack that got hit by a shrink ray. Keep in 
mind it was about 20 degrees out, at night, some snow on ground. Guy 
looks like he used to be hippie back in the day maybe.

This is my guy of course.

We drive back to mechanic's in relative silence, he does not really want 
to talk. Very weird.

We get to shop, get out. He looks at car and says OK, looks fine, let me 
pay you. I ask him don't you want to drive it, look under hood, etc? No, 
he says, it's fine.

We go into shop, he takes off 'backpack', takes out $10K bank check made 
out to me personally (this was before I was a dealer) and pays me. Looks 
legit, but what the hell did I know back then? I sign over title to him, 
give him copy, give him MS Word bill of sale that he signs, tell him I 
will send him original title after he gets back and check clears. The 
only thing I can not remember now is if he had his own plate, I left 
plate on car, or what. I think it had plate from previous owner to me 
and I left it on, but I am not sure. Too long ago.

He gets in car, and asks me how to start heading west. I ask where he's 
going, and he says California. The car has summer half-bald performance 
tires on it, RWD with no traction control. I tell him how to head west, 
and ask him to at least call or email me when he gets back to let me 
know he made it, and I will send him title.

I never hear from the guy again. Ever.

About a month later, I get a letter in the mail from the San Bernadino 
sherrif dept. It says "Your car was used in the commission of a felony. 
It is being held at impound, and if you want to pick it up you need to 
bring proof of ownership and $628 plus blah blah blah."

I call and ask what the felony was, but they won't tell me. I tell them 
I do not own the car any more, but they tell me someone has picked it up 
and paid the impound fee already. I ask how that is possible since they 
sent the letter to me as the owner, and no one can answer that. But it's 
gone, so who cares.

A week later, I get a letter from Allstate. Your car sideswiped our 
insured's car and left the scene. You owe us $5300, plus any fees, blah 
blah blah. Now this one was much tougher. I had to prove to them I sold 
the car. Showed them bill of sale, bank deposit for $10K check, copy of 
completed back of title, etc. After a week of investigation, they let me 
off the hook.

I think the only thing that saved me was that the title was signed over 
to his name. I then sent original title out to his address, did not want 
it in my possession any more!

That's it, right?

A few weeks later, I get a letter from San Fran sherrif's office. Your 
car was used in the commission of a felony. It is at the impound lot and 
and if you want it......

I threw the letter out and never responded, and did not hear from anyone 
again.

Until......

About two years after that, I get a call from a guy that says his 
grandfather, Mike, owned an AMG 560SEL and he passed away. They wanted 
to know if I had any documentation, title, etc as they could not find 
anything in his papers. I finally ask about Mike, and all guy would tell 
me is that he was 'a free spirit and a pretty cool guy'.

I give my condolences, and that was that.

Bruce








On 7/29/2013 8:08 AM, Scott Justusson wrote:
> Never, ever, ever, never ever hold a Title until a check clears.  
> Unless, you also hold the car until it does. You become liable for all 
> actions of the Buyer with that vehicle if you have not transferred 
> ownership of it. Most think 'I will let Buyer take the car but hold 
> the Title until his check clears'.  Sounds like you covered yourself, 
> but if the Buyer has the car, and it's a scam, do you really think he 
> needs the Title?  Assuming he didn't already take out the 
> Neuro-surgeons on the way to the chop shop.
>
> Easy Button says:  Sellers don't take checks because you assume more 
> risk than you should.
>
> SJ
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Sanborn <esanborn at gmail.com>
> To: Bruce Mendel <brucem105 at comcast.net>
> Cc: s-car-list <s-car-list at audifans.com>
> Sent: Mon, Jul 29, 2013 6:54 am
> Subject: Re: [s-cars] Out of town buyer.
>
> You can wait to mail the title until the check clears.
> On Jul 29, 2013 12:27 AM, "Bruce Mendel" <brucem105 at comcast.net  <mailto:brucem105 at comcast.net>> wrote:
>
>