[s-cars] '92 S4 won't start

[Tom Green]

Teddy,

You have selected this shop based on reputation, and I see no red  
flags to indicate you have made a mistake.  I recommend that you  
review the reasons your AAN won't start in Dave Forgie's
email and if you agree with the shop's diagnosis, discuss with them  
the procedure I am sure you used to change the CPS sensor without  
disturbing the timing belt position on the crankshaft.  If the shop is  
comfortable with it, that should reduce the bill considerably.  7  
years/50K miles is probably a good interval to consider timing belt  
service, so I suppose it depends on whether you can agree on a price  
for them to do the work.

This is apparently a repair shop that is new to you, so an in-person  
visit and discussion at the car might be useful, even if only to  
assure you that the tech is doing a complete troubleshooting job.   
This could include if they use a VAG specific diagnostic tool, i.e.,  
VCDS, to interrogate for diagnostic trouble codes.  On your question,  
if the fuses at the ECU have blown, the MIL should not light when the  
key is turned on and there would be no communication with the ECU.   
They should check them though, and replace them if they are the  
original circuit breaker types that get unreliable at this advanced  
age.  Swapping out parts can be a valid repair method rather than  
spend expensive hours troubleshooting, but the CPS is not one of those.

As far as the $1500 estimate goes, a proficient tech could do that job  
for half that, even at bay area labor rates.  It probably also  
includes genuine Audi parts at dealer list, which I doubt you are  
using when there are suitable aftermarket alternatives, so you may be  
successful in lowering the price.

You may not want to have the shop replace those suspect connectors,  
but it appears they are giving you good advice, and you should look  
for an economical source to get replacement connectors to replace  
yourself.  It appears that your vehicle is starting to ask for some  
TLC so it can continue to provide reliable service.

Tom '95 S6
          '95.5 S6 avant
Knoxville, TN


On Saturday January 4, 2014, at 3:57 PM, Theodore Chen <tedebearp at yahoo.com 
 > wrote:

> All, thanks for the comments so far.  The shop is in SF and has  
> gotten high ratings, which is why I took the car there instead of  
> spending $250 to tow the car home to my garage or a local shop. That  
> doesn't mean I might not decide to take the car after all.
>
> I just got email from the shop:
>
>> The crank sensor has failed no codes, we surmise that this occurred  
>> when the hose blew and water got into the connectors, Many of the  
>> plastic parts under the hood are deteriorated due to age, heat,  
>> possible oil contamination in the past. These all can lead to  
>> breakdown of the plastics.  At this time we have no spark and no  
>> injector pulse.  When testing crank sensor, signal line is flat.
>
> The part number in the quote is the replacement Bosch camshaft  
> sensor, not crank sensor.  It sounds like they actually tested the  
> sensor and weren't relying on codes.  When I replaced the CPS, I  
> used a ChenYang sensor from a group purchase on this list, and  
> spliced it into the old sensor connector.  I wonder if the splices  
> might have gotten soaked in coolant.  While I'm sure I used heat  
> shrink tubing and electrical tape, it's not going to be watertight  
> against a good dousing in coolant.
>
> Keep the comments coming, they're helpful.  Thanks.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Jan 4, 2014, at 6:15 AM, Peter <audionly at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I agree with Michael. The garage has either inadvertedly damaged  
>> the cam sensor by pulling on the plug-in which is right above that  
>> hose; or somehow possibly got water in the connection; or  
>> disconnected it and forgot to plug it back in. If you can find  
>> someone with a audi scanner in the area, it does have a diagnostic  
>> port (limited) that will tell you if there is a signal from that  
>> senser. Or, you can use a blink test. I don't see any way it could  
>> be the crank sensor. The only other thing I can think of is if they  
>> didn't know what they were doing and for some reason removed the  
>> timing belt/cam gear and now the timing is off by a tooth which  
>> won't allow the car to start. I smell a fish here. I would find  
>> someone else that knows the car to do a diagnostic.
>>
>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 9:15 PM, <tedebearp at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> The little rubber hose under the intake manifold popped a leak  
>>> last week, about 35 miles from home.  I topped off with water and  
>>> hoped to make it home.  Unfortunately, the leak got worse and not  
>>> wanting to blow the head gasket or warp the head, I had the car  
>>> towed to a nearby garage (otherwise it would have been $250 to tow  
>>> it home).
>>>
>>> The shop repaired the coolant hose.  However, they said the car  
>>> won't start, though it cranks fine.  The car was running fine when  
>>> I parked it, and they drove the car off the flatbed truck and into  
>>> the shop last week.
>>>
>>> They think it's the crank sensor and said there's no signal from  
>>> it.  They speculated that coolant got everywhere and shorted out  
>>> the sensor.  They said it's behind the timing belt so they'd need  
>>> to take all of that off to replace the sensor.  While they're at  
>>> it, they'd do a timing belt job.  Total cost is about $1500.  I  
>>> said I'd think about it and get back to them.
>>>
>>> Does this sound right to you guys?  I think it's the cam sensor,  
>>> not the crank sensor, since they said this sensor is behind the  
>>> timing belt.  I replaced the CPS when I did the timing belt at  
>>> 133k miles, which was 50k miles and probably 7 years ago.
>>>
>>> Is it possible that there's a shorted ECU fuse?
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad