[urq] Re: [Biturbos4] Acura RL

Fri Oct 22 18:09:59 EDT 2004

I don't aspire to own a new Audi.  In fact I don't really think about buying
new cars at all.  I think your perception of Audi going downhill Mike is in
fact the whole industry changing.

I've read numerous editorial comments by auto writers that say that Audi is
in fact becoming one of the better manufacturers in quality, that BMW and
Mercedes are falling off because the size of their product lines is growing
too quickly.

I think that the industry is trending towards cars with very little in the
way of character.  Cars with a ton of power that's locked up under the
control of a computer, steering with little feedback, etc.  Audi wants to
build cars like that because that's where the money is.  I drove a new B5 S4
back in 2001 and while it was a hoot, if I had one in my garage I would not
choose it over the Urq on any given day unless I needed the room for
passengers.  More realistically, I've done so much I5 work now that the
thought of picking up an older 5000tqa or 200 and keeping it around for days
I need space appeals more than a big car payment.

The STi and Evo, and hopefully, because I've always liked Mazda, the MPS,
are filling that hole, just not in the same way.  I'd probably love driving
an Evo, but do I want to drive a yellow car with a wing that big on the
back?  The Urq is stealth, just another reason I love it.

I mean really, Porsche offers an automatic transmission on most of their
cars now.  That's not to increase performance; it's to sell cars to people
who want to be seen in the Porsche, not drive a Porsche.

-----Original Message-----
From: urq-bounces at audifans.com [mailto:urq-bounces at audifans.com] On Behalf
Of Mike Fitton
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 3:42 PM
To: AudiQtroCp at aol.com
Cc: urq at audifans.com
Subject: Re: [urq] Re: [Biturbos4] Acura RL

Yeah, I gotta say something here too.  I've been looking a lot at the 
new Audis and I've seriously been considering changing alliances.  I 
think Audi's B chassis lineup started going downhill when they dropped 
the I5.  What do our urQs weigh stock...like 3000 pounds, give or take?  
The B5 S4 came in at 3600.  600 more pounds of dead weight that has to 
be lugged around.  I wouldn't be surprised if the B6 is even heavier, 
which would put it almost up to C4 S4 weight.  I think it has to do with 
BMW.  Back in the early 90s, the M3 and the S4 weren't even remotely in 
the same class.  But the M3 got upsized and the S4 got downsized and now 
they're right at each other's throat.  That's why the B6 has the big V8, 
which comes with exactly 9 more bhp than the M3.  I don't think that's a 
coincidence.  The biturbo engine shows a lot of promise I think, but as 
early as the B4, it was obvious that Audi was starting to cut corners.  
They used to build cars 100%, and I think that's dropped to 90%.  I'm 
referring to the original horrible 2.8L V6 and later the turbo issues on 
the 2.7t and now the big heavy V8.  This is just not what I want in a 
car.  And I've heard rumors that the next M3 will be even more potent, 
which means the S4 will probably get some version of the RS6 engine and 
sticker in the $60ks.  I'll never consider the Evo or STI because the 
interior is too atrocious, even though I'm the target demograph for 
those cars.  Not to mention the incredible disparity between the cars.  
The Evo has the precision road manners, which is what I care about, but 
has an unreliable drivetrain.  The STI is aimed at gravel, which I don't 
care about, but is completely reliable.  I'm also not a fan of either 
the 4G63 or F4s in general.

Volvo, on the other hand.  They're building the cars Audi used to 
build...I5 and awd.  I got a hell ride in an S80 a few months ago, and I 
was extremely impressed.  Interior and build quality were both 100%, 
where Audi has been slipping lately.  The Mazdaspeed6 shows a lot of 
promise too, with its front double wishbones, but I have a feeling I'll 
end up leaning toward the Volvo, mostly because I shy away from 
cylinders over 500cc.  Yeah, they're both Haldex-based, but the 
implications of that aren't set in stone.  In the A-chassis world, it 
means that the car is 100% fwd until wheel slip occurs.  In the S60R, 
this isn't the case.  The Haldex coupling is completely electronic, 
which means its software dictates the steady-state power distribution.  
It won't be long until diff-chips come to market.  Actually, I think 
Dahlback is working on such a thing right now.  So the S40 T5 AWD, which 
is available right now, is very appealing.  If in a couple years there's 
an S40R with all the running gear of the S60R, and the couplings can be 
flash programmed, I'll probably be sold on Volvo.

At the end of the day, nothing will beat a good longitudinal I5t in an 
old B chassis with at least one locking diff.  I only wish Audi paid 
more attention to its roots.  Without the I5, it just doesn't have the 
feel.  I suppose, just like the Evo and STI, it comes back to 
demographs.  I'm 22, so I have relatively little interest in ergonomics 
or the comfort advantages of that extra 600 pounds.  But I still want a 
car that looks classy, not something with wings on the trunks almost as 
big as my US-spec bumpers.  Not something with gawky hood scoops.  In 
general, not something recognized by all the boy-racers in this college 
town.  Audi's marketing department said it best: "Do you want a car that 
whispers your name, or shouts its own?"  The kid in the WRX should have 
no idea what just left him in the proverbial dust, rather than being 
able to rationalize, "Well...it's an STI."  He should just see a dark 
angular blur and be left to wonder.

-Cheers!
Mike Fitton
85 4KSQ
83 urQ Project
96 Saturn SW2 (for sale)
40' New Flyer Public Transportation
20' Montego (floating again)
Boat Trailer with VTEC Type-R Badge

AudiQtroCp at aol.com wrote:

>The problem is that Audi is upscaling themselves into a very exclusive 
>market, right where THEY want to be.  Unforunate - for me.   Its going to
force me 
>to not be able to ever buy a new Audi again.  Add the modern LEASE into the
mix 
>and auto manufacturers can charge whatever they want for a car since people

>arent spending real money on it anyway.
>
> Its great they have a product line to support the prices and the
popularity 
>to sell everything they import, but the times have sure changed.  The ultra

>sport package on a mere A4 lands you not far from $40k.  And this is for a
car 
>with a measely 1.8L engine.  I have the 1.8 in my 225TT and its an OK
engine, 
>but its far too small for a car the size of the TT let alone a car that
weighs 
>as much as the newest V of the A4.  
>
>I wont stop liking Audi, it just puts a new one farther out the range of
what 
>Im willing to spend on the worst depreciating "asset" we will ever buy.  I 
>will always admire them, but the farther they go out of reach, the more 
>interesting lesser cars will become.  The EVO, the STi, the 350z's all
deserve a 
>second look.  Nobody will catch Audi in areas like interior quality any
time soon, 
>but as far as performance goes there are choices out there that will give
any 
>Audi a run for my money.
>
>not sure which side of the bed i got up on today...
>
>sean
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