[urq] Burning huge amounts of oil after turbo rebuild and new EM after 6 months of use.

Fri Aug 31 06:31:28 EDT 2007

Ado, here's my report:

-Guide seals test: couldn't see any smoke because I was in, or in front of the car and the exhaust pipe is on the back ;-) If there was any blue smoke, it sure wasn't much otherwise I would have seen it...

- Rings test: lot's of smoke, and smelly too ;-)

- Turbo test: I'm not sure I understand this test, but the now open orifice on the valve housing on the valve cover does not *blow* air, but instead sucks air on all revs (vacuum). Is this correct?

- Oli drainage: couldn't tell / check

Oh well, next sunday it will be looked at by the guy who did the turbo swap etc. Let's just wait and see...

Regards,
Maurits

1986 quattro GV
1982 Coupe GL DD

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Ado Sigal 
  To: Maurits Jonkergouw 
  Cc: Audifans 
  Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 9:17 PM
  Subject: Re: [urq] Burning huge amounts of oil after turbo rebuild and new EM after 6 months of use.

  - Well Maurits, Im afraid no smoke on idle doesn't tell much, although good colour plugs with small amount of dry deposit shows that oil is not burned in the cylinders. However, If you want to establish what is at fault, and how good the rings and guide seals are, you have to perform the tests at relevant revs, and with engine fully warm. Providing that the head has the mileage to suspect seals and guides, then do it like this:

  -Leave engine fully warm to sit for ten minutes or so, then start the car and rev it  to 4K, then keep it on 2,5K or so for 10 sec or so.. If a puff of blue smoke comes out and then stops, it means that guide seals are leaking.

  -You can test for rings condition by reving the engine several times to high revs and se if you get the smoke on the overrun, but with turbo suspect, you should use different method, which is by feeling with your hand how much pressure is coming from the crankcase. Same as you've done, disconnect the hose from the igloo end and block the igloo side. Bring the engine to 3K, keep it on revs and feel with your palm how much pressure comes out. The amount of gas that comes out of there is the amount of compression that leaks through the rings, so less blow means better rings condition, usually very good on 5 cyl. 

  -Since the oil consumption was average before turbo swap, everything points to turbo, which is a little strange, and since it is a PITA job, you should look into the oil drainage issue, since obstruction there would create pressure at turbo shaft seals. Apart from that, not much more you can do but change the turbo, which could still be under guarantee; Is it?

  Cheers,

  Ado

  Maurits Jonkergouw wrote:

Ado, thanks for the info. Just returned from the lab :-) and the results of 
the crankcase ventilation test returned negative I guess: no smoke at idle 
but just a little water from the not oily exhaust. I removed the iglo hose 
at the valve housing (T-split) like you said and capped it. Curiously put my 
finger on the now open valve housing end and felt vacuum was drawn, but 
still no smoke.Took out the small plastic one-way valve inside the valve housing to the IM 
and also checked the valve housing itself for oil: they where just a little 
wet and the valve functioned well, I guess it's perfectly OK then.

Plugs are not wet at all and have the perfect colour, there are some 
deposits, but considering how old they are (18759 km), that's normal I 
guess.

Valve cover seal and other oil seals are also absolutely dry.

Although I'm not sure what should have happened when disconnecting the 
breather hose in either case, but my guess it's burning oil at the hot side 
turbine seal and not in the cylinders and means it has to be rebuild again, 
correct?

Thanks again.

Regards,
Maurits

1986 quattro GV
1982 Coupe GL DD

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ado Sigal" <a.sigal at bluewin.ch>
To: "Maurits Jonkergouw" <urq at moregraphics.nl>
Cc: "Audifans" <urq at audifans.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 4:33 AM
Subject: Re: [urq] Burning huge amounts of oil after turbo rebuild and new 
EM after 6 months of use.

  That's huge amount of oil burned, and if it started after rebuild, it must 
be to do with work done.

- First establish where the oil is burned. If in cylinders, the plugs 
would be oily with lots of deposit, and if plugs are fine, then the oil is 
burned through hot side turbine seal. The exhaust will be oily in both 
cases.

- If oil is burned in the cylinders, and it wasn't before the work, it 
could be that crankcase pressure is created, and is pushing the oil 
through valve guides and oil viper rings into cylinders. To make sure that 
there is no pressure going to crankcase, simply disconnect the crankcase 
breather hose that goes from igloo to valve cover. Cap the igloo end end, 
and test for smoke. Might also check the other breather to IM connection, 
which is one way valve with metered orifice. Clean it up and make sure it 
works correctly. (If excessive crankcase pressure was created, as 
indication, the engine would be wet arround valve cover and other related 
oil seals.)

-The routing of crankcase ventilation is the difference between GV and WR, 
not the exhaust.

- Change of oil line plays no importance, if the leak on the old one 
didn't leave the engine without oil at any time.

-Dialynx EM also controls wastegate through the bottom WG chamber, which 
is connected via same metal/high temp hose as the old one was. This only 
plays part how well WG is controlled, but plays no part in the oil issue.

Well, test and let us know which one it is.

Regards,

Ado

Maurits Jonkergouw wrote:

    Hmmm, oil consumption is getting worse each week since april this year... 
Did a small test, perhaps you could comment on this:

Idle for 10 minutes > accelerate fast to 5000 RPM > huge cloud of smoke 
      >from the exhaust.
    Guys, what does this mean? I'm very worried about this new 1 liter oil per 
500 km thing.

Also checked the 'michelin hose' for oil by disconnecting it at the iglo 
and putting down a rubber flex hose all the way down to the turbo intake 
and pulled it out to see if there was some oil on it, which is not. 
Perhaps not the best way to check but didn't want to remove the tray below 
the bumper and disconnect the hose directly from the turbo intake...

Things that might be of importance: one of the oil cooler lines has been 
replaced, not sure it was exit or supply though. Turbo is a rebuild and 
valves are readjusted to spec. My old exhaust manifold was cracked and is 
replaced with Dialynx EM, all at the same time around december 2006.
Before the EM swap there was a hose present from the iglo to the 
wastegate, but is now removed. The header on the iglo is capped off, the 
header on the wastegate is not capped. To my knowlidge the wastegate is 
now controlled by turbo pressure.

Another thing that I still don't understand: this is a GV engine, not WR, 
and the only difference is some of the exhaust is routed back and reburned 
or something like that to reduce CO. I've red that the original WR engine 
used exhaust pressure to control boost level, I'm not sure if the original 
GV uses the same technique and if the 'new' Dialynx method controlling 
boost  without exhaust pressure? (not sure how exactly boost level is 
controlled withe the Dialynx EM), interfers with the original GV method to 
reduce CO, in other words: this is bad or good.

Any comment or insights/thoughts are welcome, thanks.

Regards,
Maurits

1986 quattro GV
1982 Coupe GL DD
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