[urq] Thought-provoking stuff.......NAC, but all Car stuff.

[Steve Eiche]

Jim,
There is no conspiracy on why electric and hybrid cars haven't caught on 
yet.  They just haven't been practical or desirable because the 
technology just wasn't there.  Would you _really_ want to drive 
something like a Honda Insight?  I wouldn't, and apparently not many 
other people did either.   What the first electric vehicles (EVs0 and 
hybrids did prove is that we are getting close to having EVs that _are_ 
practical as daily transportation.  I think in the next few years with 
the recent battery technology that has come out we will see some REALLY 
interesting vehicles.  The electronics to do the job has been available 
for years, but battery technology has not.

For example, I've recently taken up electric powered RC airplanes 
(honestly, I've gotten kind of soured to the car hobby lately).  There 
is a big surge in the popularity of electric flight with the new high 
discharge rate, light weight lithium polymer (Lipo) batteries in the 
last few years.  In my planes I use 2200mAh 3 cell 11.1V (half charge 
voltage - full charge is 12.6V) that you can draw 40+ Amps from with a 
weight of less than five onces.  One charge (takes an hour) will fly my 
27oz., 200W, 42" wing span aerobatic plane for about 20 minutes, and my 
24oz., 150W, 39" wing span trainer for a half an hour.  There are guys 
right now flying electric 1/3 scale 20lb aerobatic planes with 
incredible performance. (Back to car stuff here.) The problem is, and 
what has been making lithium polymer battery use in EVs problematic is 
that you MUST NOT over discharge or over charge Lipo batteries or they 
can burst into flames.  Think magnesium fire or those flaming laptop 
batteries that got recalled.  Bad. They will also burst into flames if 
punctured (bad thing to happen in an auto crash).  On top of that, the 
operating and storage temperature range must be kept within a range that 
is narrower than typical climatic extremes (you do want to be able to 
drive if it is less than freezing...).

BUT, there is new technology now on the market.  A company called 
A123Systems has a new lithium phosphate 3.3V cell that has a super high 
discharge rate (60Amp sustained or 120Amp on a 2300mAh cell for a 10sec 
pulse - think incredible torque as electric motors have maximum torque 
at 0RPM - I'm thinking unlimited vertical on my RC plane).  These also 
have a long life (1000+ cycles) and are inherently safe(r) than other 
existing battery technologies.  Another big plus is a super fast charge 
rate of 4X capacity.  A full charge takes just 15 minutes.  With a -30C 
to +60C operating temperature range, you will be able to drive in 
winter. When you hear GM say that they are waiting for battery 
technology to catch up, I think what they are referring to is production 
capability of these types of cells to get to vehicle production levels. 
  You will need A LOT of these to power a car.  In terms of price, these 
cells are actually a bit cheaper than a comparable Lipo cell and weight 
is about the same.  Right now there are some high end power tools 
available with these.

Would I drive an electric or hybrid car?  Hell yes, but it has to be as 
practical as a gas car and fun - no, I don't want a Prius.  The Tesla 
sports car with it's Lipo batteries will surely start to open people's 
eyes in terms of the performance capabilities of EVs.  IMO, until EVs 
are practical, fun AND affordable with unsubsidized prices, John Q. 
Public is not going to want them.

Steve

Hey quattro fans,

Please forgive the NAC, and also posting to the three lists I subscribe 
to, but I saw
something last night that is starting to disturb me.  Let me start by 
saying that I am a
quattroholic, currently owning a '95 S6 Avant, a '91 200 TQ 20V and an 
'83 ur.  I've had a
total of 8 Audis (7 quattros) in my driving career and have loved every 
one of them.  That
said, I just watched "Who Killed the Electric Car" last night and I 
found it quite
compelling.  I also found it quite disturbing.  If you haven't watched 
it yet, I suggest,
even for entertainment sake, that you go and rent it.  Now, I'm not one 
of those
"conspiracy" types, but I find it quite troubling to know that we, the 
car buying public,
are not given the option of purchasing a different propulsion technology 
for our
transportation that would seem on the surface to be very economical, 
reliable, "emissions
free" (I put that in quotes on purpose....of course I know it takes 
either nuclear,
natural gas or coal to make the el
  ectricity to charge the damn things,) etc.  The fact that the major 
automobile
manufacturers have gone to great lengths to destroy every last EV they 
had made makes for
some interesting "conspiracy" thoughts in my mind.  What are they trying 
to hide?

My intent here is merely to provoke some mindful thought about what we, 
as consumers, are
facing in the real world when faced with high gas and oil prices (while 
oil companies are
enjoying record profits), environmental pollution from oil and gas 
spills, and not to
mention Global Warming due to internal combustion engine exhaust, (I'm 
not even going to
go into the geo-political conflicts costing American lives in the 
oil-rich Middle East.)
And to also inform people that there are (were) other viable options 
available as recently
as 5-10 years ago that could possibly have kept us from the possible 
environmental
predicament we are currently facing.  Am I willing to give up my trio of 
quattros at the
moment?  No, but I am thinking of the possibilites of transforming a 
4000 quattro to
electric power sometime in the future........the technology is there to 
do it.

I invite all thought provoking criticism, constructive and otherwise.......

Best regards to all,